Moving house - schools are full

[Squidgepops]

We are moving house this year, we have access to the house from April, but planned to live at the old house and visit on weekends to get it ready before making the 100 mile move fully over the summer holidays.

However, the 2 local schools for my yr7 and yr5 (currently) are full. The next schools are 4.5 miles and 2 miles away. The school's we wanted them to go to are literally over the road from the house, and the other is a 5 minute walk round the corner.

With our youngest starting school in September (we've applied for the catchment school to the house and provided proof of residence so should hopefully get our first choice), I'm now left with the possibility of having to do 3 school runs, and then get to work. It's just not practical, logical and may not even be possible on some days, meaning someone will always be late.

We could move full time at Easter, as the local authority won't even let us apply for a September place until July, and then keep the older ones at the current schools and move at very short notice once they get a place if we have to go through the appeal process.

Has anyone gone through an appeal process for a yr5/7 place, would the fact that we are moving for family support with childcare, and the logistics of where we live be a strong enough case for winning the appeal? Given that it's not an infant class size appeal, it's KS2 and KS3.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

My ds travelled to school from year 7 -secondary - by himself? Is that an option? Therefore only leaving 2 school runs to do?
I have no experience on an appeals process but hopefully someone will be along soon to offer more advice.

Not sure its grounds for appeal but if you are across the road then probably higher up any waitlist...it maybe the schools have a turnover of kids anyway and you will get in from wl...

How are you providing proof of main residence at your new house for your youngest when you aren't living there?

I'd get your name on the waiting list for the schools you want your older children to go to and be prepared to make the move once a place comes up (you don't get much notice though). Places do become available but it's hit and miss when. Putting your name down in the summer is unlikely to get you a place by September at either school. As you mentioned family support, could one of them temporarily reside with said family (Mon-Fri) if necessary for a couple of weeks if you were offered a place but needed to sort things first?

@IAmSantaOhYesIAm

My ds travelled to school from year 7 -secondary - by himself? Is that an option? Therefore only leaving 2 school runs to do? I have no experience on an appeals process but hopefully someone will be along soon to offer more advice.

The eldest would have a 4.5 mile trip to the next secondary school. Requiring several buses. She's not the most confident of children and moving from a small town to a city and then having to get the bus to school would be very overwhelming for her.

@ffscovid

How are you providing proof of main residence at your new house for your youngest when you aren't living there?

I'd get your name on the waiting list for the schools you want your older children to go to and be prepared to make the move once a place comes up (you don't get much notice though). Places do become available but it's hit and miss when. Putting your name down in the summer is unlikely to get you a place by September at either school. As you mentioned family support, could one of them temporarily reside with said family (Mon-Fri) if necessary for a couple of weeks if you were offered a place but needed to sort things first?

We have a signed and dated tenancy agreement stating that we are taking the property from 1st April 2022. So have attached this to his application,

We have the middle child on the waiting list for the school over the road, but the secondary school won't even consider adding the eldest to the list until July, leaving very little time to appeal the decision if needed.

In my experience appeals on this basis are unlikely to succeed.
You can look at the appeal criteria, but they will argue that the allocated schools meet your needs.
Can the Ed dept tell you how likely you are to get a place?
Ours told us our number on waiting list and how many places came available the previous year.

The reasons for your move and the logistical issues are unlikely to win an appeal. You need to show that the disadvantage to your child from not attending the school outweighs any problems the school will face through having to cope with another pupil. Unless the child has medical issues, childcare and transport issues are viewed as things that are a problem for you rather than something that will disadvantage your child.

You need to look at what your preferred schools offer that is missing from the allocated schools. Anything you can find that is relevant to your children could help you at appeal.

Could you put them all in private? Is that an option?

It’s probably the only way you will be able to get the y5 in anywhere.

*We have a signed and dated tenancy agreement stating that we are taking the property from 1st April 2022. So have attached this to his application"

Have you got it agreed, in writing, that they will accept this and use it as the address for initial allocations?

I don't know of an LA that will; they will use your current address, and then once you actually move, use the rental address. I don't know an LA that will use an address that won't apply until that far in advance, unless you are returning crown servants/military.

As for appeal, as PP have said, logistical/family/childcare issues are unlikely to be successful, especially for secondary, where children are expected to travel by themselves to and from school.

I don't think you have any grounds for appeal that would make any difference.

I have spoken to the local council who have said to apply under our current local authority, put our preferred school in the new area and attach our tenancy agreement as proof of residence. Given that we will be living in the property prior to start of school.

You have to provide proof of where you are CURRENTLY living, not where you could be living at some point in the future. I’d be amazed if your youngest gets a place at the school over the road from the house where you don’t actually live.

Ahh this happened to me. Two years later, I’m still driving to the school three miles away. The school at the end of the road is really popular and oversubscribed so there’s never been space. I’m resigned to it now.

@Squidgepops

I have spoken to the local council who have said to apply under our current local authority, put our preferred school in the new area and attach our tenancy agreement as proof of residence. Given that we will be living in the property prior to start of school.

If you’re not living there, it isn’t proof of residence. This is from my local LA. It’s clear that the permanent address is at the time of the closing date of applications. *Your child's home address Many schools use children's addresses when deciding who to offer places to. When considering your child’s application, we use your permanent home address at the closing date for applications. You must give the correct permanent address. This is where the child and parent, or the person who has care of the child or has parental responsibility, normally live. If your address changes temporarily (for example, if you go to live with a relative), you cannot use this address. If parents are separated and the child spends time at each parent’s address, the address of the parent who receives Child Benefit will normally be used*

@Squidgepops

I have spoken to the local council who have said to apply under our current local authority, put our preferred school in the new area and attach our tenancy agreement as proof of residence. Given that we will be living in the property prior to start of school.

I'd be a bit concerned about that tbh. Have you got anything in writing that says the new LA will actually take that address as your address for the first round of applications? As I say, I don't know a LA that would (I sit on appeals panels), as it's not the address that you intend to be in when you start school that is used, it's the child's permanent address as the time of application. Some have some wriggle room should you move post close of applications, but I know of none that would take a tenancy agreement that starts that late.

@Soontobe60

You have to provide proof of where you are CURRENTLY living, not where you could be living at some point in the future. I’d be amazed if your youngest gets a place at the school over the road from the house where you don’t actually live.

This. Having worked in a role linked to school admissions, I'll eat my hat if they'd accept a tenancy agreement for an address you are expecting to move to in the future. If this was acceptable, everyone would do it and then withdraw the tenancy once the form is submitted (forfeiting the deposit would be worth it to 'play' the system).

Presumably you knew all this, how oversubscribed the schools were, prior to viewing house. So you must have planned that this was likely to happen?

the reason you cant apply till July is because you dont want the place till September.

In April when you have the address - make in-year applications as though you are willing to take the place immediately - you will get on the waiting list that way - but if you are offered a place you will have to accept it

@SquidgepopsI have a friend who got her school place based on a future address in a similar fashion to what you’ve outlined so if you are confident it’s agreed I wouldn’t be alarmed by posters telling you it isn’t possible.

A lot of schools aren’t at PAN in upper years due to children relocating / going private. Have you found out what the current situation is? Does the school have a sibling policy? You’re hopefully in a good position to get both of your younger kids into the local school.

While the trek to the other secondary might be daunting at first most secondary students manage it themselves in time so if that’s your only concern about the school I’d just focus more on getting your daughter used to the idea. Try for the closer school by all means but be realistic.

The Council will likely be more helpful once you are actually resident. There are protocols for children moving into an area and lack of school places. But not until you actually live there and become their responsibility.

@LondonGirl83
@Squidgepops
I attach the rules for Buckinghamshire. The dates are clear and how applications are dealt with is explained. So what others have said will almost certainly be correct. You can apply but you join the process later than others.

Trying to attach a photo.. word for word the admission guide for the local authority we are moving into says "the council requires confirmation that your house move is legally binding (IE. You have exchanged contracts and have established a date by which you will be resident in the property). Normally a letter from your solicitor confirming the exchange of contracts will be sufficient, or, if you are renting a property, a copy of a formal lease agreement, provided by an approved letting authority, signed by all parties, showing that you will be resident in the proposed property on 1st September 2022."

So the fact the council/local authority will accept the tenancy agreement is not only in their admission guide, it's also in an email I received in response to asking their admission team how we apply. They have asked for us to submit our tenancy agreement as proof of residence.

If you actually have, in writing, that they will take your new address into account for the first round of allocations in April, that's good, as if they don't then that is good evidence for appeal.

I've found the doc you are referring to I think, and the paragraph you quote actually comes under the details for "if you move BEFORE the closing date for applications" (their capitals) - you aren't.

However, that whole piece is written very unclearly IMHO, and doesn't actually explicitly address your situation as it only refers to those who move after the closing date wanting to change their preferences, which isn't the case. The line about "you will be resident by" in the paragraph you cite muddies things more.

But if the email you have explicitly says the address will be used for the first round, and they don't, you can take that to any appeal.

I'm sorry OP, I don't mean to be pernickety ;-) but as a appeals panelist of many years now, I've seen many people caught out by unclear admissions policies, or by being told something on the phone by someone who doesn't actually know what they are talking about!

@TizerorFizz my friend had binding agreement to complete and similar to the OP was able to get a place before officially completing the transaction.

If your new house is very close to the schools, once you move, your children will probably go to the top of the waiting lists. The waiting list is not ordered by how long you've been on it, but by the admissions criteria. You can probably ask the schools where the new address would put you on the current waiting list - it might be right at the top, or there might be children already on the waiting list who come higher up the admissions criteria (eg due to faith/sibling rules).

If you're going to go on the waiting list at number 1, there's a fair chance that a place will come up between June and September - in most areas there is some movement over the summer holidays. Again, the schools might be able to tell you what sort of turnover they normally see.