Last minute primary application panic - Twins

[MangoStrawberryPineapple]

I know the deadline is very quickly creeping up on us and we really need to make a decision quickly but we are seriously struggling.

We would prefer DT1 and DT2 to be split into different classes in school. We have chosen a 2 form entry full primary as first choice and a three form entry infants as second choice. We have chance of both of them but it’s slim as neither are our closest school and the infants is a CE faith school which we would be in the distance category for behind the faith places and siblings.

Our options

1. Ideally we would like to put the 4 form entry catholic infants down as third but we don’t want to risk this, again it would be in the distance category, and not get school places.
2. Put the one form entry infants school down that’s closest to the house for both of them
3. Put separate one form entry infants schools down for both of them, there are two near to us (closer than all the other schools), and they feed into the same two form juniors.

Being a twin myself I know the problems that can occur with twins being in the same class at school. My twin and I were constantly compared throughout school on pretty much everything from behaviour to academics and things we liked to the friends we had. It was also horrible that we weren’t allowed to develop as individuals because we were always ‘the twins’. We didn’t really get a chance to be individuals until secondary school.

I really want DT1 and DT2 to be able to develop as individuals from the start, not be compared to each other all the time until they are 11, have their own friends and develop their own interests. They are both different people, they are developing their own unique ways and interests and already showing they are probably going to be nothing like each other. When they went to nursery about 12 months ago, initially I kept them together because they were quite close and after all the lockdown and no social interactions with many other children it made sense. The nursery mentioned it might be good to split them because of many reasons which were discussed at the time, has two groups and since September they have been in separate groups and have come on massively by not being together all the time. I really don’t want school to push them together and be constantly thinking they are very similar or compared one to the other. I am really worried about this.

Im just really confused as to what would be the best to do, risk not school places with the catholic school, send them to different schools for the infants and allow them to be themselves, or suck it up and accept they are going to have to be in the same class for 3 years and try extremely hard with the school to allow them to be individuals.

while I sympathise, and your options aren't great, I would really avoid having 2 separate schools.

Just doing drop off and pick up will become a massive stress. If school finishes at 3:00, you ar elucky to be collected and out of the playground by 3:15, then dash to other school...

the usual advice is to make sure that the last choice is one that it a certainty. A school you will definitely get.
Assume you put both down for eg the catholic school, and you don't get any of the 3 schools. The LA will then give you a place in the nearest school with spaces which could be miles away. So chose one of the close schools, close enough to be a certainty and put that third for both.

If you end up there, you can talk to the school, there are always groups and different 'tables' etc and the school can actively enocurage them in different directions.

I have twins - year 6 now and always separated in school. For school applications, twins count as one dc to ensure they don’t split into different schools (this only came in a few years ago). I really would keep them in the same school. You can appeal if you don’t get the school you want and use the argument that they need separate classes.

You absolutely do not want them in different schools. Imagine when sports day/ nativity/ easter service/whatever are at the same time and you cannot attend both.
Not to mention the every day nightmare of drop off/pick up.

I've got twins (now 7) and everyone told me to out them in separate classes but it went against my instinct. Each school I visited I asked about their approach to twins. I choose (and luckily given a place) at a school who had had lots of twin experience. They put twins in the the same class but always separate them within the class. They are now in year 3, have the same group of friends but different best friends and never get sat or put together for anything. It works brilliantly. Just another angle for you to think about!

I'd put the (same) close infant school down as 3rd choice in your position, OP.

Having them in different schools would be a pain with pick ups and drop offs and clashes. They would be separated at junior school, so not a case of them going through whole primary school together. Although not ideal, if the school is aware they can take steps to support them in separate work and friendship groups. And you could encourage separate extra-curriculars for them after school and weekends too.

But hopefully they will get a place at one of the 2 or 3 form entry schools.

Getting the impression we shouldn’t have different schools. Myself and DH are available for school runs and grandparents can help out so it would be possible, but I agree, DH and I have discussed this a lot, a massive pain for parents evenings, school plays etc.

I got so wound up in my ‘must have separate classes’ I hadn’t though about separate tables in primary school, thanks for that. It’s not ideal, as they would still be the same class and I really do want to avoid this.

There is a section on the application form which says “other reasons for your preferences” and goes on to say you should tick the box and explain what they are.

I’m more than happy to fill this section out and explain why we want a school with more than one form entry, but, do schools/admissions actually take this into account? I can’t see anything in the admissions criteria which says they do?

Do you only get 3 choices? It's 6 in some areas, so just checking how many options you have.

I absolutely wouldn't put down different schools. Sounds like school 2 should be your final choice.It reads like most of your choices are infants. Do any feed into preferable junior schools? I'd go on that basis.

Explaining why you want a 2 form entry will do nothing to influence admissions.

You won't risk anything by putting your top choice first, however unlikely it is that you will get a place. You will still have the same chance as getting the next choice, and th next one etc. You get allocated the highest choice you qualify for, irrespective of whether it's your first or last choice.

@MangoStrawberryPineapple No, unfortunately I'm pretty sure that your reasons wouldn't affect the school allocations. It can be a bit misleading to include the box where you can state reasons if it's not made clear which ones will make a difference, but it will only be taken into account if it will move you into a higher admissions category (e.g, if the school has a medical category that things written here place the child into). I'm happy to be corrected by the admissions experts if what I've said here isn't quite right, however.

I agree with others that I would put the closest school as third preference, even if it is one form entry. It is better to have a nearby school with some downsides than be allocated a school by the LA that has places left over, which could be some distance away. Fingers crossed you get one of your higher preferences though!

Yes only three preferences. And yes, very few full primaries near us. Only 3 in town everything else infants and juniors. Our first preference is the only full primary we have a chance at, the others are the other side of town.

For juniors
CE infants feeds to CE juniors.
Catholic infants feeds to catholic juniors.
Both local one form infants feed to same juniors.
CE juniors is better than the other 2.
Choosing the CE over catholic because it’s closer (and juniors better) so more chance of getting places on distance.
There’s another couple of juniors further away but they serve their own infants school clusters on the other side of town and we won’t have a chance of them.

When it comes to juniors, it’s pretty much an automatic feed from the infants to juniors (higher up in priority if you attend associated infants) but we could choose a different one at the time if we wanted to/have to.

@InTheLabyrinth brilliant, thanks for clarifying. I’ll still fill that section in anyways, it might help if we appeal if I’ve already mentioned it - I hope it will anyways.

@ChildOfFriday thank you for the further clarification. Yes, that’s quite a misleading/confusing section after reading your post.

As a twin who was in the same class as my sibling throughout primary school it's not a given that they won't develop as individuals. It certainly wasn't the case for us. Have you spoken to the school about how they manage twins? I can see why you are focusing on 2 form entry given your fears but the approach of the school is just as important. Also I would think about how a longer distance to school might impact their friendships as they get to an age when they want to meet friends / walk to school.

Your twins are not you. You seem fixated on your unique experience rather than viewing your dc as separate from you. That’s rather ironic really.
Research from the twins trust shows most twins do better in infant school in the same class.

I did speak to both the infants schools at the time about how they deal with twins but I’ll be honest and say, I didn’t ask the same questions I did with the 2, 3, 4 form entry schools because I didn’t think we would be considering them. I only looked at the schools for the sake of looking and I nearly didn’t bother. We were always going to go for the multiple form entry schools. After doing more research and becoming wiser in school admissions it seems this was a mistake as Ive learned over the past few weeks about cut off distances and where they are.

I think I will ask to speak to the schools this week about their sibling policies and go from there. As much as I would love to put the 4 form catholic school down I just don’t want to risk not getting a place when the other 2 are already a hope for the best. I can see general opinion (and probably common sense) is saying don’t go for separate schools so will work out which of the one form infants is the best.

@MyDcAreMarvel I agree to a point. Yes, my experiences have made me a bit weary of having them together and not wanting them to experience what I did.
Before they went to nursery I wanted them separate because of this but I read advice from twins trust and kept them together despite my not wanting to. I saw that the nursery was treating them as individuals and was ok and getting over it a bit.
However, 12 months later and 4 months in different groups, they really are doing better separated at nursery. It was actually nursery who asked whether I would consider a trail of having them in different groups for several reasons with the intention of putting them back together if it wasn’t the right thing for them. We had a long chat about it and we tried it. It has been the best thing for them. I don’t want them to go backwards by putting them together again if it can be avoided. And yes, I will admit, my experiences have also helped shape that decision.

The only thing you risk by putting them in preferred order is a chance of getting a preferred choice.
Put the catholic schools as third choice.
Worst case, they'll allocate to nearest school with spaces if you don't get any of your choices. If they end up going to a one form infant school, being in the same class/ compared isn't such a big deal when they're little. When they get to juniors you can request they're in different classes. Or you can see if another infant school has a apace for one. Cross that bridge if you come to it.

the box for aditional reasons is not used at all at the allocation stage.
But it is useful to have it at the appeal stage, and shows that it has been a concern.

So do fill it in.
The allocation stage is toatlly a computer modelling.
As pp have said, don't worry about putting your preference first, even if it is a long shot. If you don't get it, your number 2 is considered as if number 1 alongside those who put it as number 1. So you don't miss out.

But do put down a school for your last preference that you stand a realistic chance of getting, otherwise you could end up with rubbish place miles away.

Worst case, they'll allocate to nearest school with spaces if you don't get any of your choices

but the nearest school with spaces might be 3 miles away across town.
It is unlikely to be your closest school.

I do a lot of admissions support.

Always put the catchment school - if you don't it is nearest with places after everyone's choices and can be anywhere in LA area. You can go on the wait lists for the other schools, or any school after offers, including the 4 form entry, which would likely have more movement than a single form

I know someone who had twins and put them in separate schools. They lasted a year. Pick up/ drop off was a nightmare and needed both parents every day. I have twins in the same class; one form entry. Honestly they are very very different despite being identical on separate levels/ tables/ groups for most subjects. They are treated very much as individuals by teachers and children. They are a bit bolshy though so would be quick to correct anyone if they misnamed them.

I’d certainly speak to the schools. They’ll have had lots of twins before and I’m sure will have strategies on how to give both of them a positive experience.

I have 4 twins, both sets are identical boys. I would definitely stick to one school for primary. Would you choose two schools if they were normal single siblings? I’m going to assume, probably not, the logistics would put you off.

I think you are right with going to the 2 form and 3 form entry schools as 1st and 2nd, they offer so much more flexibility with twins. I would put the nearest local school down as 3rd though with the knowledge at the back of your mind that you will appeal for the other schools if you get 3rd. I would also, after offers day, get on the waiting lists of every 2+ form entry school in your area if you get 3rd.

I’ll tell you my story of two very different sets of twins and schools. It won’t make your decision for you but might give you something to think about with how things can work out with twins.

I was a bit like you, I though I was doing my best by them when I made decisions, but it doesn’t always work out. I wanted my first 2 separated to start with, but then they went to school, when it came to the the second 2 I wanted them together, but experience has told me the twins pretty much determine it based on their twin relationship. All you can do is your best but make sure you have maximum flexibility.

My first two went to a two form entry primary and the school were good with the request to separate. By Christmas of reception it was evident it wasn’t working, when there were joint form activities it was evident the boys were always together and were actually learning rather than being the one in class who was anxious and hiding, together they got involved with the lessons and contributed, and they needed to be together. They were put in the same class and school were good with dealing with making sure they were individuals and putting them in different groups/tables/encouraging them to develop their own interests in after school activities. They were split in Y3 and this was difficult but they were allowed to be together when the two forms mixed, this helped but wasn’t working. Around Easter of Y3 they ended up back in the same class. They were split again in Y6 but both were old enough to understand they had to learn to be apart before they went to secondary school. The school still tried to put them together whenever possible to help with the separation.
They went to the same secondary school. Our local secondary school splits the year in half and has 4 forms in each side of the year, one half of the year has the same timetable and the other has a different timetable. Usually the school would put one twin in one half and the other in the other half so when they are setted they will never end up in the same class. The school listened to my request and they ended up in the same half of the year. They had some lessons apart and some together. They have ended up taking (mostly) different options at GCSE but do still have English, maths and geography together. Being together is their thing and they have learned to be separate over the years. Making 6th form/college decisions is going to be difficult with these two.

My second two went to the same two form primary as the others and were kept together in reception after the experience with the other two (who were going through through the Y3 hassle at the point I was talking to the primary school about whether to split the younger 2 or not). They were differentiated and treated as individuals. The school kept them together when there was joint form activities but they started wanting to be in separate groups so I allowed this. Started having a few problems at the end of reception and beginning of Y1 with them in the same class, they were misbehaving, not with other children, just among themselves and they were more interested with competing with each other than concentrating on the lessons. Teachers suggested splitting. After the experience with the older two I didn’t want to split them until around Y3. By the middle of Y1 they asked to have their own classes. I let them split in Y2. Best thing for them, they needed to be apart to learn and be themselves. They have been split since then and are likely to remain so for the rest of their education. They even decided they wanted separate secondary schools. They started secondary this year and love being seen as a normal person with no one messing their names up and the teachers not knowing their identical sibling. They don’t deny they are twins, they just like that most people don’t know the other twin. They have really come on. They would have been put in opposite sides of the year in the local secondary, one just didn’t want this and now one goes to a different school. It’s a pain. Having multiple children in one school is a pain with all the parents evenings and things going on, but add a second school, it’s a bit of a nightmare. This is secondary school so they can do things for themselves, like getting to school, I wouldn’t have done it for primary.

Children in the same school suits the parents, not necessarily the children. I had five children in four schools, yes it was a headache, yes I had to juggle but they suited the children.

I was also dead set on my twins being separated at reception, but we moved to a more rural location and all of the localish infant schools are single form. It has been totally fine. I will want them separate in junior school, but for now there are minimal downsides, and even some benefits to being together.

For context my two girls are notidentical, have very different personalities, and are both quite confident in their own ways. They play together at home, but I have been told mostly ignore each other at nursery and then school. The exception is if one is upset, the other will tend to them.

I guess my comment is just to say that I understand your preference, but if your worst case scenario is them in the same class - it isn’t necessarily bad, and it probably isn’t forever. Also echo others that 2 different schools is a bad idea - the amount of logistical planning involved in primary school vs nursery took me by surprise.

@Ducksurprise

Children in the same school suits the parents, not necessarily the children. I had five children in four schools, yes it was a headache, yes I had to juggle but they suited the children.

well, good for you.

But 4 schools is just impractical for most families.
It is simply not possible for the parent doing pick up to be in 4 different places at once, at the same time. And school quickly get tired of one parents always picking up 10 minutes late (and only 10 minutes is pretty optimistic)

Most of us don't have this luxury. When multiple schools are essential, eg with a special needs school, the LA often provides transport, as it recognises that it is not possible for most parents to get half way across town to school. When they don't it is a nightmare for the parent trying to juggle breakfast club for one child so they can take the other etc. And in these Covid times, good luck if you can find a school still doing the full before and after school care.

Secondary of course is different as kids can make their own way on bus/bike etc.

@MangoStrawberryPineapple playing devils advocate here, I’m in a school which does whichever parents request but I’ve had twins who were fairly similar and best friends and others who weren’t. Parents always made clear if they would like them encouraged to be together or would like them to have some space so we’d make sure that happened. Different classes are no guarantee of them being apart all day anyway, in EYFS outdoor provision will probably be shared, most schools set across a year group for phonics, there’s lunchtime and playtimes in upper school. I think a better option would be to go for the one form school which sounds like it would be your preference if it wasn’t for this issue and make clear your feelings, asking the staff how they will support the twins to be well rounded individuals with separate friends etc