Bute House 4+ starters

[DaddyPhD]

Can anyone with experience of the school, tell me - With 100's of parents applying for a small number of places by ballot, I was wondering what that results in for the mix of the class? Are most parents entering the ballot local (walk to school) , or are families drawn from a wider area, as the school has a great rep?

Also given the school has a rigorous 7+ entry and great results for leaver destinations , does anyone know how this impacts pupils who joined by ballot, who may not fit the academic mould? Would they feel alienated from most of their peers? Surrounded by these super smart kids set for the SPGS and Godolphin and Latymer's of this world?

I guess I'm trying to understand how the ballot selected pupils get on at school, as it must contain all sorts of abilities , but Bute remains a prep with a very strong rep of feeding very academic schools.

Well I think you sum it most of the 75% girls coming at 7+ will feed these top school and the 25% that joined at 4+ will have a normal distribution I would say (top 5-10% in top academic).

Don’t forget Bute also has siblings policy.
So - half or more of reception class is mostly sisters of girls who got in at 7+. Already a select demographic.
As to the Ballot - they say it’s random, but the it does seem to have a fair number of kids who live nearby.
It’s a strange dual system - but I think the school needs it to maintain charitable status and good standing in local community.

As to how ballot kids perform. They perform as per their potential, which has a normal distribution.
Girls coming at 7+ have a higher IQ/potential as a cohort; so obviously they perform better.
And it is a bit of a shock to some of the kids when lots of smart girls show up. But it’s a good school and not overtly competitive. So it’s managed OK. Generally.

Thanks for the replies, Parent12345 and MMmomDD

As one of you mentioned, the non-competitive ethos hopefully should manage this for less academically inclined girls, who are very much in the minority in the school.

It's interesting what you say MMmomDD about locals. As the school is well known I would have thought a random ballot would attract parents outside of local. But I guess long commuting with a 4 year old is hardly ideal

It is popular as is many people sign up for the lottery. But it’s just a handful of places so doesn’t make a big difference locally.
And yes - commuting across town with a 4yo isn’t great for the child, so not many people would apply from too far away.

Thanks MMmomDD

Our DD has a place via ballot and its really thrown us. We didn't think we had any sort of chance with the ridiculous odds, so our focus was on 7+ entry ( and we'd know more if she was a 'fit' by that age too).

We also live about 45 mins away by public transport, about an hours drive, so again that commute for a 7+ is very different for a 4 year old! So now we're thinking about moving.

The head invited us next year in Spring for a chat, our DD has a place for Autumn 2023. I know we're lucky and we are very grateful of the place, but can't help feeling a little worried if my DD whose currently just turned 3 will struggle in later years if she's really not academic, but ironically Bute might get her into the best non-academic senior school if the ethos is very much individual tailored and she's in the 'lower stream' of girls.

I'm just researching on the back foot, as all our previous research was for 7+ entry. We thought at 7+ Bute has a wide catchment, but I see this is probably not the case at 4+.

I have had three girls through Bute, younger still there.

If say for the absolute majority of 4+ girls they do well and end up at a strong senior school, that is right for them. And have a great time along the way. The pre-prep bit is really small and lovely, and has very strong teaching, and then by Year 3 all my DDs have been ready for something bigger and a mix up socially. The pastoral side is great at dealing with issues quickly.

The risk is just the same as going to any of the other big name girls preps, but with the cushion of the non-competitive ethos (amongst the girls more than the parents to be honest, there are some real tiger parents- but that's normal for London). Yes there's a small chance your DD may really struggle and it might not be right long term - but that's the same risk as almost all popular London preps. They do have a big learning support department that my middle DD had lots of help from and she adored going to see those teachers for help.

My DDs all adore the school and I feel very lucky to have got them in. I was never St Paul's obsessed though and always hoped for G&L or FHS which is where eldest went.

Thanks @AligatorZebra

That does make me feel better reading your very positive post.

I'm happy whatever happens she'll have that period of a small, well supported cohort before 7+. It's especially heartening that your DDs love the school, which is all we really want for our DD at the end of the day.

It's great to hear from a parent who has had a trio of DD's through the school, and still speaks so highly of Bute. It confirms all we thought about the school.

Thanks again!

@DaddyPhD

Bute is a great school, it has good facilities for a central London school, and ethos that make it less pressured than many other ‘academic’ preps in London.
However, it’s not worth it if the child has to commute two hours a day. Not at 4, not at 7, in my opinion.
I’d not put a child through this sort of commute for any school. Not at primary level anyway.

And it’s not only because of being tired. It’s also for her social life and friendships. After school clubs, play dates, birthday parties - all of that will be complicated, and/or impossible.
If moving is an option - and it works for you as a family - I’d consider it seriously. You may as well, we a large share of the kids end up in the three of the Hammersmith secondaries, or at FHS.
But I’d also want to make sure that it’s worth it Vs your the local options

@MMmomDD. Thank you.

We were deluding ourselves a bit that DD could commute at 7+, (Bute is on route for my wife's work,) now we face entry at 4+, moving is the only real option.

We'll have to sacrifice on the size of home we can afford further out, but when we registered DD at birth for Bute, we always knew deep down it would mean moving further in, if she was lucky enough to be accepted.

I have always wondered how people still believe in this non competitive ethos. Bute main intake is in year 3 and based on a extremely selective 7+ assessment (all best girls from all best prep school compete and are tutored at that point to get in that school).
From year3 to year 6, like most of the others top prep in the area, girls are streamed, and stretched or supported.

For us, the absence of the house system, prefects, prize giving, etc were all huge selling points for Bute.

Its seems more in line with schools in Europe rather than the British tradition of public schools - which seems to be all about winners and losers and tests. I haven't read or heard anything from parents with girls at the school to believe otherwise. I could be totally wrong.

I take your point they take the smartest girls at 7+ , that's the main concern of my original post for my DD going at 4+ by ballot!!

But it does seem unlike other girls prep's, certainly compared to our local one now. Our DD is currently at a nursery linked to our local girls prep, the prep is very old school with a competitive house system , prize giving, prefects, etc. Bute doesn't come across like this at all, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Our DD also started at reception a few years ago with the previous head. Our commute on public transportation was about 45-50 minutes door to door. We would take her in the mornings on our way to work. It really did not affect our daughter socially with play dates and birthdays especially the first few years in a class of 22 as a lot of social activities were full class activities. They had children coming from all over London though granted there were a few living closer or moving closer to Hammersmith as time went on. The children do adapt and we thought the school’s reputation and facilities were worth the effort of the commute. I don’t recall at Reception if there were many morning clubs but as they move up in the school, athletic training / swim squads do tend to start in the mornings from around 7:30 - 8 am depending on the sport.

The parents in our year who live locally and /or wfh are supportive and fantastic when it comes to helping with play dates/pickups as the school will tend to have some days where an early pick up is required or events where you have to bring the girls back and forth in the afternoon/evening.

It is true that the influx of girls joining at 7+ can be a bit of a rude awakening. I do think a few of the academically ambitious parents in our year may have been quietly working with their girls on their own or perhaps going externally to ensure that their girls were not disadvantaged when that transition happened. It is a very strange system and something to keep in mind.

thanks for your post @Savanta

It's very useful to know you made the commute work, and what it's like not being a 'walk to school ' local parent. It sounds like the school (and some parents) made it a very positive experience for you and your DD.

It also confirms what we initially thought, that for a great school, they'll always be parents like us who wish it for their DDs but don't live right on the doorstep, especially given the distances in a big city like London.

A commute with a young DC or selling up and trying to find somewhere in budget , close to the school - neither are easy options, but we both feel (like you) either routes are worth it for the school.

It is very interesting to see all parents with DD's at Bute posting here, all very positive for the school itself, which speaks volumes in itself.

My daughter is in her last year at Bute and was a ballot reception entry.

Whilst it is true that you do get a cohort of high achievers entering at 7+ it's completely erroneous to say that the reception girls are all the lower achievers by year 6. Hand on heart can say that is absolutely not the case in our year. I am quite sure that at least 60% of our reception year will be ending up at SPGS, G&L or Wycombe. (Boarding all the rage again)

Bute does try and balance the 7+ entry class to mix in with the existing girls in order to have a year that is mixed ability.

I think it's a lovely school and we as parents have been very happy with our DD there. Can't beat the ethos and the facilities.

I should point out that even the "lower achievers" from Bute all end up at fabulous schools - and bring their confidence and teachability and enthusiasm with them.

Definitely had some girls from outside the local area at 4+ and 7+ - but a few moves to be closer.

thanks @cariad73

Your post confirms what I posted earlier on this thread, that the school seems to get the best out of the pupil, regardless of natural ability, so even if my DD is non-academic, Bute seems a great place to reach her full potential. I can see how mixed ability at 4+ in a school like Bute would produce girls reaching their full potential, so the 60% reaching top schools doesn't surprise me and it's a testimony to the ethos of the school.

My wife and I are really glad to read posts like yours, it's great hearing from parents who DD's started at 4+ as most threads on mumsnet are naturally focused on 7+ entry. Its answering a lot of questions we had also.

Your post is also another vote of a very happy parent and happy DD, which is wonderful to read!

@DaddyPhD

thanks *@cariad73*

Your post confirms what I posted earlier on this thread, that the school seems to get the best out of the pupil, regardless of natural ability, so even if my DD is non-academic, Bute seems a great place to reach her full potential. I can see how mixed ability at 4+ in a school like Bute would produce girls reaching their full potential, so the 60% reaching top schools doesn't surprise me and it's a testimony to the ethos of the school.

My wife and I are really glad to read posts like yours, it's great hearing from parents who DD's started at 4+ as most threads on mumsnet are naturally focused on 7+ entry. Its answering a lot of questions we had also.

Your post is also another vote of a very happy parent and happy DD, which is wonderful to read!

I think a lot of people have opinions on Bute that are based on assumption.

I also think parents who had girls enter at 7+ have their own perception regarding how much more clever their cohort is.

Reality may not match.

@dilettante73

Very true.

We had assumptions and it's only listening to parents with DD at the school one gets a real picture.

We just want a well rounded happy DD, meeting her full potential, whatever that may be . Bute hopefully helps with moulding that roundness, but of course we see that as chiefly our responsibility.

We both work in education (wife works at an Eton Group public boys school, and deals with parents all day, I think that's why she doesn't have a mumsnet profile!!) I teach undergrads at Uni, most of my students have 3 A's at A-Level to gain entry) - our idea of very academic clever is something we'd use very sparingly for our own DD. We certainly don't see academic prowess as the holy grail, we've both seen how damaging the ruthless pursuit of academic success in young people can be (with pressure from parents).

My original post was how our DD would fare with the new influx of girls at 7+, but I think this issue is more about us parents!! ( as you say parents of 7+ viewing their DDs as exceptionally clever and 'better' than ballot old girls, and parents of ballot 4+ like us worried about their DD's at some perceived disadvantage.

We're both a lot less stressed about this having read the experiences of ballot parents on this thread.

[quote DaddyPhD]@dilettante73

Very true.

We had assumptions and it's only listening to parents with DD at the school one gets a real picture.

We just want a well rounded happy DD, meeting her full potential, whatever that may be . Bute hopefully helps with moulding that roundness, but of course we see that as chiefly our responsibility.

We both work in education (wife works at an Eton Group public boys school, and deals with parents all day, I think that's why she doesn't have a mumsnet profile!!) I teach undergrads at Uni, most of my students have 3 A's at A-Level to gain entry) - our idea of very academic clever is something we'd use very sparingly for our own DD. We certainly don't see academic prowess as the holy grail, we've both seen how damaging the ruthless pursuit of academic success in young people can be (with pressure from parents).

My original post was how our DD would fare with the new influx of girls at 7+, but I think this issue is more about us parents!! ( as you say parents of 7+ viewing their DDs as exceptionally clever and 'better' than ballot old girls, and parents of ballot 4+ like us worried about their DD's at some perceived disadvantage.

We're both a lot less stressed about this having read the experiences of ballot parents on this thread.[/quote]

It's a super school. I just think it's very easy to get wrapped up in the hype and expectation that being at this school should automatically mean you go to a top three secondary.

Literally every Bute girl ends up at a great secondary - even if it's not THE BEST.

Go into it with clear eyes and the expectation of a great education for your daughter - and you won't be disappointed.

@dilettante73

Thank you, that's perfect advice! A common sense reminder!

We are certainly slipping into the hype around the school, since we got the news in October, worrying about silly things - a series of what ifs- - we're normally so removed from things like that!!

@DaddyPhD

Can anyone with experience of the school, tell me - With 100's of parents applying for a small number of places by ballot, I was wondering what that results in for the mix of the class? Are most parents entering the ballot local (walk to school) , or are families drawn from a wider area, as the school has a great rep?

Also given the school has a rigorous 7+ entry and great results for leaver destinations , does anyone know how this impacts pupils who joined by ballot, who may not fit the academic mould? Would they feel alienated from most of their peers? Surrounded by these super smart kids set for the SPGS and Godolphin and Latymer's of this world?

I guess I'm trying to understand how the ballot selected pupils get on at school, as it must contain all sorts of abilities , but Bute remains a prep with a very strong rep of feeding very academic schools.

Historically, a lower percentage of DD's who enter via the ballot get offers from SPGS compared to 7+entrants. The school has no magic wand, a DD will either have the capacity for SPGS or she won't. No school can turn average academic ability into SPGS material. However, it's not uncommon for 4 out of 21 DD's in Reception to get offers. Remember though, half of the Reception Class is siblings, only 10 come in via the ballot. Good luck.

@DaddyPhD

Thanks for the replies, Parent12345 and MMmomDD

As one of you mentioned, the non-competitive ethos hopefully should manage this for less academically inclined girls, who are very much in the minority in the school.

It's interesting what you say MMmomDD about locals. As the school is well known I would have thought a random ballot would attract parents outside of local. But I guess long commuting with a 4 year old is hardly ideal

Remember, Bute is an awesome school, but these are young children. I do not know 1 DD that commutes >1 hour to school. The vast majority are 30-40 minutes or less of commute time. They are little kids, not sixth formers.

Thanks @pkim123

This is an old thread, and since posting we've met with the school and talked over all our concerns.

We can't think ahead to senior schools for our 3 year old, we'll see nearer the time.

Even with a formal offer letter in hand, it's still a shock for us - our little girl beating such huge odds to get a place purely by luck.

@DaddyPhD
Did you feel more reassured speaking to them? What are you deciding?

We looked around the open day not being sure if it would be right for Dd and loved it. It feels like one of the only non-all through academically ambitious girls schools. I guess other than Falkner and Ken Prep but I liked the nurturing little pre-prep with loads of individual attention (adult on every table of 5 or so girls one class we saw!) followed by the bigger more studious feel prep. The girls seemed to have spark and it felt like there is a lot of thinking put into the syllabuses and prepping for 11+ without killing love of learning at the end. We spoke to the young male deputy head and found him really inspiring. Lots of girl power/feminist ambition. The head wasn't at the open day but would have been interesting to hear longer term plans as she is new there. I wonder if it'll keep the links with spgs.

Chances of getting in seem very low though anyway so need to stop dreaming

[quote ShinyTiger]@DaddyPhD
Did you feel more reassured speaking to them? What are you deciding?

We looked around the open day not being sure if it would be right for Dd and loved it. It feels like one of the only non-all through academically ambitious girls schools. I guess other than Falkner and Ken Prep but I liked the nurturing little pre-prep with loads of individual attention (adult on every table of 5 or so girls one class we saw!) followed by the bigger more studious feel prep. The girls seemed to have spark and it felt like there is a lot of thinking put into the syllabuses and prepping for 11+ without killing love of learning at the end. We spoke to the young male deputy head and found him really inspiring. Lots of girl power/feminist ambition. The head wasn't at the open day but would have been interesting to hear longer term plans as she is new there. I wonder if it'll keep the links with spgs.

Chances of getting in seem very low though anyway so need to stop dreaming[/quote]
Yes we did, I'm sure we're going for it.

I think for 4+ entry everyone has a chance, but that chance is so random and small , you can't really plan for it. Just register and throw your hat in. We were expecting 7+ to try for Bute ( assuming she seemed to be suitable) and almost saw the Ballot as a good way to park your place for 7+ (with no chance of getting a ballot place).

With 4+, even preps that have an assessment, they are so young, it's hard to predict how they'll be at 11+. I mean, we have to be open that our DD may turn out to be very ordinary academically and not suited to the Hammersmith schools. We'll still love her anyway

Good luck if you're in the next Ballot or going for 7+!

From Reception to Year 6 the students develop at all different speeds. We've seen average Bute kids from Reception ramp it up big time in year 5/6. We've also seen some "smart academic" Reception kids sort of fade back a bit. So trust me, it's all to play for right up until they sit the 11+ exams. It's a brilliant school. Enjoy.