Haberdashers Hatcham Temple Grove Free School

[DiggerDiggerDigger]

I’d love to hear from any parents with children at this school / who decided against it / anything really. We’re looking at schools for 2022. This is one of the options (this or Edmund Waller, really). We have a perhaps slightly sensitive, rule-abiding, people loving Autumn born DC who is academically v ahead of where they’re expected to be / showing aptitude for that kind of thing.

The local chat about Haberdashers seems to be:

• All about discipline.
• Headmaster is not that keen on children / bit hands-off.
• Not great at SEN support.
• Not great at dealing with bullying.

… but good results, good facilities, good extracurriculars and generally happy parents. I used to think it was the more middle class option, against Waller, but I now think it’s more nuanced than that - Waller seems to attract a more liberal kind of parent who is perhaps a bit less fussed about whether or not a school is a point or two ahead in Maths and is all about nurturing the children and exposing them to all sorts of things (which I love) - but I know from firsthand experience that it also appeals to some parents with “spirited” kids who I know full well are an ill-disciplined nightmare. Though maybe there are some of these in every school, who knows?

The tour of Waller was much warmer and the teachers genuinely seemed to love the place - but if I have a child who seems academically inclined, is a free and arts-focused school a good idea? On the other hand I wonder if Haberdashers will simply teach the curriculum and not really do much to extend or nurture kids.

(To avoid confusion, this is the school at the top of Pepys Rd SE14 - not the former Monson primary and not the north London private school.)

There are very academically able children with parents who have high expectations at both HTGFS and Waller. I know many children at both schools, of all abilities, and they are all happy and thriving. Historically Waller was the best school in the area; the free school has drawn a particular kind of parent/newcomer to the area which means in comparison Waller is seen as more artsy/creative but the curriculum and extra curricular at both is strong. The outside space at Waller is amazing, though, and the wrap around care is good too.

In any case the catchment for both is small. This year it was small (but not the smallest ever) at HTFS which had a knock on effect - Waller shrank by 25% I believe as many parents had put HTGFS first and didn’t get it.

HTGFS has more old fashioned behavioural approach eg keeping kids in at playtime if they haven’t completed work etc and lengthened the school day after covid. I can’t speak for Waller but I’d be surprised if they did this. Waller is still a very middle class school which doesn’t quite reflect the diversity of the area but HTGFS seems much more homogenous.

Honestly though, they’re both great schools with great teachers and engaged parents and the difference between them is probably much less than it might seem when you’re trying to choose..

It sounds to me like your child would be more suited to HTGFS. I have friends with DCs there. The advantage of course is priority entry for the senior school. There is only so much most schools can do though if the class is 30 kids of mixed abilities. If your child is really that ahead it may be worth looking at an academic scholarship at a highly selective independent school or depending on income, on a bursary place.

Thank you both very much, I appreciate it. google I guess we'll see in 5/6 years but I'm not sure how much of a draw the senior school is any more (you may know better). When we moved here people were practically murdering their grannies to get their kids in; now friends with older DC are aiming for Kingsdale and even Deptford Green in quite large numbers. Selective schools - definitely not eligible for a bursary place if it's based on income, and (though we debated it) I really don't fancy the commute twice a day to Dulwich, Blackheath or Catford for a private school, leaving aside the cost implications of putting this one and siblings through.

HA was once very selective and even interviewed parents years ago! They then decided to absorb the Monson Rd primary and this, coupled with their new less selective admissions policy meant the school was less academically successful and less socially exclusive. They then gamed the system by building the free school on the playground of the senior school. At the time, they said the Monson Rd kids would continue having priority entry to the senior school. Quite recently, they changed the rules and now give priority to kids at the free school. They’ve realised cynically that to get the grades, they want the MC kids back…Not enough of that cohort has fed through yet to make a difference in terms of a return to its heyday but by the time yours is at primary school, I predict it will be ultra popular again. Kingsdale is great for very go-getting, confident kids. Actually all schools go through tumultuous change every few years so you’re right not to base decisions on secondary schools now.
I too used to think ‘never’ for independent schools. I have friends on similar incomes who drive much nicer cars, have holiday homes etc. Personal choice but if I had the chance to send them to a good independent, (not independent for the sake of it), I’d do it every time. I have experience of D.C. in both. There is levelling down in the state sector because schools get penalised for attainment gaps. It’s much easier to close the gap by ensuring the top of the cohort doesn’t fly too high than it is to raise the bottom cohort with limited resources. It’s a very big ask for any state primary in London to prioritise an academic child from non pupil-premium background.
I wouldn’t bother with Blackheath schools but the foundation schools are in a different league and there are coaches near your area.

Digger, the reasons the appeal of the high school has dropped off include:

a) the original intake was disproportionately middle class, and white, when the intake changed a lot of the teachers and parents bolted (search for old threads on here / east dulwich forum etc). There is undoubtedly an element of snobbery and racism to some of the drop off in appeal amongst some parents. And there was a drop off in results initially because the children who had been at Monson (before it changed) were underachieving as a cohort.

b) the kind of parents who are drawn to the area and its 1.5+m houses by the school are often the kind of parents who won't want a good local high school but a private school or the assurance (in their eyes) of the absolute BEST state high school. Falling from outstanding to good doesn't help either.

I'd say it's less a reflection of the school and more of the changing parents, if that makes sense..

Fwiw the children from HTG who have by now been all the way through the school as HTG not Monson are not in any way underachieving.

I overheard a high school parent comment with surprise recently that "the kids from that primary school are neck and neck with the kids from our primary school in the top sets!" Which frankly tells you everything you need to know about what some parents close to HTGFS expect.

Google, the high school prioritise both feeders now, not the free school instead of the other HTG. Clarifying even if you know that, for other readers.

Totally agree though that it's worth making your decision on primary alone at this stage. Apart from anything, if you're close enough (400m) to get into the primary school, you're going to get into the high school anyway even if you go for edmund waller or elsewhere.

Mostly, though, a bright / very bright child from a supportive background is going to do great in either of those primaries. There's probably much less between them in terms of creativity and stimulation than you might think. Main differences will be the uniform and the outside space.

Good luck with your choice, it's such an exciting (and daunting) phase