Help with listing primary school application

[Julenp]

Hi everyone,

Thank you in advance as this is a bit long!

I’m getting in a bit of a tizz about our primary school application and could do with a bit of advice.

I think I understand the equal preference system well enough but my brain is getting a bit boggled trying to work out how to order our schools as I really have no huge preference between my top three choices

We have four local schools worth considering;

1. JJ - catchment school that required improvement but has since converted to an academy with a good sponsor. Open as the academy for 3.5 years now but no new Ofsted report (due to Covid??). Literally next door to our house but haven’t seen it as no open days planned. Facilities are average but there is a good before/after school/holiday club.

1. BP - lovely school within 10 mins walking distance, good results and Ofsted but only one class intake. No extra clubs etc due to size but does have breakfast/after school sessions. lovely village/countryside feel (we live in a new town so nice to have somewhere with that sort of vibe). Not oversubscribed.

1. LL - the one in huge demand! Massive school, 4 class intake, lots (LOTS) of money & facilities, about 4000 clubs . Ofsted outstanding (of course, nothing else would be acceptable for them!). Literally has everything, about 20 bloody playgrounds with full equipment in each, a swimming pool etc etc you get the idea! Oversubscribed and we live almost a mile away. Plus very formal and traditional. Lots of focus on competition and achievement. I think we’d be unlikely to get this due to distance. Worth noting family members attend so very convenient for pick ups etc as we could all help each other out.

1. PN - originally my first choice but I’m now finding it a bit…bland? After viewing others it just doesn’t stand out. Outstanding which is great, 3 class intake and just a 7 minute walk away, nice school environment but nothing as impressive as LL and not in as nice an area as BP, also didn’t have their family feel. Slightly oversubscribed so even though we’re close, we could still lose out.

I really don’t know how to order these! What do you all think? I’m concerned as we don’t really have a dead cert. Because of oversubscription and intake sizes I almost feel like we’ll end up with our first choice or nothing!

What would you do?

Put JJ on your list, even if it’s last. It sounds a much better option than a random school miles away that you didn’t apply for, which is what can happen if you only apply to schools where you don’t have much chance.
The rest depends on your attitude to risk. Some people need to know that they’ve tried for the long shot, even if it doesn’t work out and they end up with a fall back option; some people prefer the certainty of going for the catchment school so there’s more time to start preparing their child for which school they will go to.

Personally I would go LL, JJ, PN, BP
My DC attends at large primary which has academy status and lots of clubs. They have a friend who attends a single form entry school. We're at the stage of looking at secondary schools and the difference on how the two DCs acted in the whole looking round thing was very noticeable.
I'm fortunate that DC is quite outgoing and proactive, but the friend was completely overwhelmed by the size of all the 'big' schools we looked at.
Larger intake means more opportunities to meet people from a variety of backgrounds (social and cultural), which is always good in my book.
However, it does really depend on your own priorities. If distance is a big deal, and extra curricular activities are not, then LL may not have as much appeal.

LL then JJ
But JJ might actually be my preference.
LL is quite far but offers lots and family is convenient in early years.
But nothing much trumps school mates on foot step. By Y1 other families help each other out etc IME

I agree with @DaisyDozyDee that I would definitely include JJ in there somewhere. It sounds like it is fairly likely to be an almost dead cert if you are almost next door, and many on here give a lot of weight to having a nearby primary school.

I know you say you understand the equal preference system, but I just wanted to reassure you that you get no advantage in admissions by listing a school first, so it won't be a case of getting your first choice or nothing. If you put JJ last, for example, you would still get a place above someone who puts it first but lives further away (assuming that they aren't in a higher admissions category for another reason of course, e.g. having a sibling there if they have a sibling policy). Each school you list is effectively a separate application, with the order only mattering if more than one is able to offer you a place.

I would discount BP due to the 1 class intake.

I would put LL first, then JJ (don’t underestimate closeness and before/after school facilities) then PN.

Personally the 1 form intake would be my preferred school. This is what I picked for mine who has started in reception this year and the feel and attitude of the school/staff etc has been lovely. Other schools close by with multiple form intakes just didn't feel as welcoming or connected to the individual children. However despite the small size of the school they do have a different after school activity on every night after school, sometimes more than 1.

LL first. You might not get it, but you might. Sounds like a good bet.

I'd go BP second. What's wrong with single form intake? Has good wrap around care

JJ last, if all else fails you should be a dead cert for it.

For me with a single form intake I would worry that with such a small pool of children it might be harder to make friends if that makes sense? Children can be cruel and clicky (cliquey?) and if say you ended up with 3 boys and 27 girls the balance is all wrong or it can be harder to find your people than it is with a wider variety of children. Say if there’s only 5 other girls to play with and they all like Peppa Pig but you like Bluey it’s easy to be pushed out with a smaller intake.

That might not be what happens and if it does obviously it doesn’t happen everywhere, I didn’t go to a single intake and my children haven’t so I have no direct experience but the thought of it is off putting to me.

When are the ofsted outstanding grades from? They can be many, many years old and pretty meaningless.

Ah see my counter for that @thegriffle (not that your wrong but just the other side) is that in our school of only 220 pupils everyone seems to know everyone. The head teacher knows all the kids, lots of the parents, which kids will be starting nursery next etc. We do have a fairly even split sex wise but DS play with the girls anyway but they've mostly been together since 3 yo so they all know each other, whereas when I was I na 2 form entry we didnt actually mix with the other class much and at friend's school they mix the classes each year so you might suddenly find your friends in another class one September. There's much more of a family feel with only 100 or so parents in school vs nearly 100 parents across the whole school yeaf

I'd agree with PP that a 1form entry lends itself to a lovely size of school. I think our school has 140 kids and it does feel like everyone knows everyone. People are helpful generally when it comes to pick ups and play dates.

Thank you everyone.

Really good to get others’ views and it’s really interesting to see that JJ should be considered more seriously than I have done so far. I was planning to put it fourth as it has lowest results/Ofsted (or at least did last time they were published) and is probably the one we’re likely to be given if we don’t meet criteria for the rest. I hadn’t thought about the closeness of friendship circles to home, so that’s defo something to think about.

I’ve assumed there will be so many applications to LL that because we live a bit further away it’s almost a wasted choice but sounds like it’s probably worth a punt. Nothing to lose and I don’t have another school to consider anyway

I love the idea of BP, it’s where I would have wanted to go when I was four but clearly that isn’t the right reason to choose it for DS.

I’m going to submit our form this weekend and then try to stop thinking about it. And attempt not to amend it 1000 times before the deadline!

We go to a one form entry school & its brilliant. People have STRONG opinions on here that small schools are awful but it really couldn’t be less true in many cases. From our experience, it’s far more of a community feel. My DD has friends in multiple year groups, they are really encouraged to develop relationships with children across the school & not just their class. The head knows all the kids. Parents know each other across year groups & it’s so friendly! They have strong links to our village & regularly take trips to things like the local market to practice using money, the bakery to watch how they make bread 😄 that kinda thing and they support lots of local causes and have local musicians & artists & business owners into school.

It’s so so nice. We couldn’t love our school anymore. We live in a village surrounded by other villages. Small schools are the norm. One form entry is the biggest you get! All my local friends kids go to small schools too & there isn’t a single problem amongst them.

My DD’s class is very girl heavy. 19 girls & 11 boys. But it’s not a problem.. the kids all just play together 🤷🏼‍♀️

I would ensure that you put down JJ as your lowest preference because this is the school you are most likely to ensure you get a place at. I would be slightly concerned that the school is not having open days. 3.5 years since conversion to academy status would say they are due an Ofsted inspection very shortly.
For the rest I would always favour bigger schools as it does show when pupils from small schools go to large secondary school. Think it is for you to make a decision on which to put down as first and second preference and then put JJ as third preference. You seem to leaning towards LL so I think you need to go with your guts and stop overthinking the situation.

@Bobholll

We go to a one form entry school & its brilliant. People have STRONG opinions on here that small schools are awful but it really couldn’t be less true in many cases. From our experience, it’s far more of a community feel. My DD has friends in multiple year groups, they are really encouraged to develop relationships with children across the school & not just their class. The head knows all the kids. Parents know each other across year groups & it’s so friendly! They have strong links to our village & regularly take trips to things like the local market to practice using money, the bakery to watch how they make bread 😄 that kinda thing and they support lots of local causes and have local musicians & artists & business owners into school.

It’s so so nice. We couldn’t love our school anymore. We live in a village surrounded by other villages. Small schools are the norm. One form entry is the biggest you get! All my local friends kids go to small schools too & there isn’t a single problem amongst them.

My DD’s class is very girl heavy. 19 girls & 11 boys. But it’s not a problem.. the kids all just play together 🤷🏼‍♀️

Thank you. This is exactly why I like the small school. It feels friendly and supportive but I’m a bit concerned about the lack of clubs and after school opportunities, plus I worry if DS struggled to make friends or, say, (extreme example!) was getting bullied by someone in his class, he’s then in that class with that pupil throughout his whole primary stage. Although, I assume the school would have ways of dealing with this exact thing as it must arise now and again. Have you ever encountered a similar situation?

@admission

I would ensure that you put down JJ as your lowest preference because this is the school you are most likely to ensure you get a place at. I would be slightly concerned that the school is not having open days. 3.5 years since conversion to academy status would say they are due an Ofsted inspection very shortly. For the rest I would always favour bigger schools as it does show when pupils from small schools go to large secondary school. Think it is for you to make a decision on which to put down as first and second preference and then put JJ as third preference. You seem to leaning towards LL so I think you need to go with your guts and stop overthinking the situation.

Thank you. Yes very weird about the open days and frustrating as they’re like a big mystery at the moment….the next Ofsted could be rubbish again or it could have vastly improved. I will definitely include the school though and try to look at the positives if we do get it. I definitely need to stop overthinking it Funnily enough, at the moment I actually have LL listed third as I’m not too sure about their ethos around competition, “always being the best” etc etc. But I’m now wondering whether to just put it first and take the risk. Everyone wants that school and I almost feel like I’m doing DS a disservice by not at least trying!

Thing is, kids from small schools go to secondary school & do just fine. I went to a half form entry village school & I loved high school. It was a shock to the system for sure but after a couple weeks it was fine. I made new friends & had solid friendships from school that I maintain to this day. Kids are very adaptable. Transitioning is a very small portion of the 5 years in high school!

We did have after school clubs but they all stopped cos of covid & haven’t yet restarted. But my DD does gymnastics, swimming, dance & art club outside school in the local area that I arranged myself. I don’t feel she needs clubs at school really but if they restart, I’ll see what’s on. Our school does have an after school club, that’s very useful for us & DD enjoys going.

I’m sure there are odd instances of bullying or unkind behaviour but no experience personally. Bullying can happen anywhere. I guess in larger schools, children commonly move classes each year & could be split up but those kids are still there & in their year group & still in the playground.

Small schools are not everyone’s preference, I get that but the bashing & negative assumptions on here are a bit ridiculous. Don’t pick the small school cos moving to high school is hard. Your kid is 4. You’ve no idea what kinda 11 year old they’ll be! Pick the primary that best suits your child’s childhood, not thinking ahead 7 years later. You can’t predict the future. Also this idea they won’t make friends & could be left out. I mean possible but unlikely. And this happens in large schools just as much. The amount I’ve read on here about kids being left out of friendship groups in their class .. these kids are in bigger schools most of the time. 🤷🏼‍♀️

LL sounds awful.

BP sounds nice.

Re after school stuff, do you need wrap around chkd care or do you just mean extra curricular stuff. Are there opportunities local? As much as we're hoping to get into craft club in January (🙄) even the larger schools round here dint offer gymnastics for example, which is what DS would rather do than anything school provides so it doesn't have to be a massive downer

If you want LL, go for it. It's worth noting that it's a low birth year.

It took me weeks to decide between a 1 form Catholic and a 2 form community. In the end I went with the 2 form due to friendship opportunities and the variety of clubs and enrichment opportunities on offer.