We can't decide...

[glitterbug87]

We have been looking at local primary schools for the reception 2022 intake. In our town we are fortunate that we have good schools and people usually get their first choice given the number of places available.

We have decided against one school as it was huge and just didn't feel right. Another is simply too far out for us to realistically walk to.

This leaves us with the choice of a faith school and one other.

The faith school was closed down in 2017 due to poor Ofsted. It has since re-opened as an Academy, over £300,000 has been injected into the school. It has a new Head who has turned the school around, a new teaching team (3 of whom have won awards for excellent teaching in our county). The school also now gets the best SAT results out of all of the schools in the town. The LA has been in and done their own version of Ofsted and it is now rated a "good school." It is also a one form entry and class sizes are usually low 20s each year. I should also point out that DD is Baptised so we could get a place based on faith.

We visited and it had a lovely feel to it, but I didn't come away with that gut wrenching "yes, this is the right one."

The other school is consistently "good." Is much bigger - two form. Again, felt nice, but didn't get that "you will just know the right one vibe."

Faith is important to DH, not so much to me.

Anybody else been in similar predicaments. How did you decide?

I should add that DD is a confident little girl and she would be fine at either.

So both are equally suitable. Do you know anything about the secondary schools they feed into?

I'd go with the school that is closest to your house personally... we did school nursery at a school a mile walk away, and it was hideous, took forever, miserable in rubbish weather etc. plus no nearby friends.
She's now in Y1 at the school at the end of our road and school run takes 5 minutes each way, she can walk with her little pals and they are close enough to come over for tea etc.
It really does make an enormous difference!

They both sound like perfectly good choices.

Have you looked into their before and after school provision? You may not need wrap around care at first but that could change. And what sort of after school clubs do they run? Again not necessarily important in reception, but most of the year 1+ kids I know do at least 2 extra curricular clubs a week and not all schools offer a decent range.

Are both of the schools within walking distance? Are the routes good for scooting or cycling? Will you be happy for your child to walk the route themselves in year 5/6?

Both schools are approx. the same distance and local, so that wouldn't pose a problem.

The faith school feeds into two outstanding secondaries - the local one (non-faith) and a Catholic High School. If we went down the Catholic route, it gives us a choice of two when the time comes - obviously if the non-faith one is not doing so well, we would do for the Catholic one which is about 30 mins away by car.

The viability of a school that has class sizes in the low 20s would worry me. Is this sustainable long term once the money has run out?

Size wise, I think the 2 form entry sounds better. 20ish kids per year sounds nice at 4, less nice when they 9/10/11.

I would choose the academy due to the feeder secondaries if it was a convenient walk. Low twenties for class size isn’t badly limiting; that’s what nice American state schools aim for. It’s in classes under 15 pupils, or with gross gender imbalance of more than 65% one gender where friendship troubles start.

@RedskyThisNight

The viability of a school that has class sizes in the low 20s would worry me. Is this sustainable long term once the money has run out?

This is a really important point. Assuming that you are in England, a class size of 24 means that the school is missing out on the funding for 6 children, per clsss. That's a lot of money.

We have a local free school which opened up about 5 years ago. One of its big selling points was smaller class sizes, no bigger than 25. Fast forward 5 years and they have now increased their class sizes to the standard 30 in KS1 and 32 in KS2. Just like all the other local primary schools. Small class sizes sound lovely but it has a significant impact on a small school.

Don't let the small classes sway you. If you like the faith school, go for it. Which school is she most likely to make local friends in?

I think this is an interesting dilemma.

First of all, the CofE school was probably inadequate 4 years ago. That’s very poor. Are the same governors still around? Is the CofE the sponsor of the academy? I would also suggest that award winning teachers move on to greater things. Heads too. There are heads and teachers who are “turnaround” specialists. They turn a school around and move on. The next set might not be so good so you are gambling that they stay and improvement is maintained. They are not attracting enough children so parents are not trusting the school. If they did, it would be full. What are their sats results like when looked at against progress?

2 form entry is not big. You must think about friendship possibilities and such things as music, sport and clubs when DC are older. A nice little family group at 5 might seem cosy but isn’t the best at 11 when it can be claustrophobic.

Lastly, all schools have a daily act of worship and have high behaviour expectations. If DH wants CofE, then there are churches to attend. Lots of families do diY with religion. I think a bigger school is better than a CofE small one with an iffy track record.

It's Catholic rather than CofE. I will definitely ask about the Governors and whether they are the same. I also hadn't considered missing funding for lower class sizes.

Friendship wise the Catholic one does concern me - I worry there may be a gender imbalance etc.

not sure anyone gets a "gut wrenching feeling" that they have found the right primary school really?

if they both seem ok then choose the one that's closest to your house?

I probably wouldn't put any store on 'award winning teachers'. This isn't something any teacher I know strives for or is even aware of. I suspect some academies put forward their teachers for awards as it is excellent publicity for the school.

If distance is the same and your child is pretty confident generally, I would go for the larger school.
Dd went to a small rural school in a class of 16, which increased gradually up to 23 by the time she left year 6. Most years lower down were full, hers was a bit of an anomaly. She was one of 6 girls and friendship issues were relentless at the end. There was very little after school activity unless we travelled elsewhere. Trips and other costs were higher as the bus needed to take them was only split across 23 kids, not 30. I realise this is only my experience but having been through it all, I would go larger if I had the choice.
Also don’t pay too much attention to SATs, the last 2 years haven’t happened thanks to covid. Anything schools are claiming from 2020 and 2021 is internal and possibly overinflated.

@glitterbug87
Sorry if I got the wrong religion! Other comments still apply though.

I’m also amazed the school has published the findings of the LA. These “inspections” are usually for internal consumption only. The governors and head as far as my LA is concerned and are normally only done when a school is red or amber on their early warning system!

Is the sponsor the RC church then? I cannot see how it can be anyone else.

@Plotato

I probably wouldn't put any store on 'award winning teachers'. This isn't something any teacher I know strives for or is even aware of. I suspect some academies put forward their teachers for awards as it is excellent publicity for the school.

This totally. It's often a marketing gimmick

Don't write off larger primaries. 3 form is normal in loads of areas. 4-5 form per year schools are set up differently but have some advantages. Lots more resources, funding etc Lots more friends

Thanks everybody.

The school is in a Trust with a group of other schools.

My head is really telling me the larger school, but DH doesn't want to dismiss the Catholic one just yet so I have just sent a list of 10 questions! I am sure they will get fed up with us constantly asking questions!!

In addition to this, I spoke to child's pre=school teacher and she said in her professional opinion she feels the faith school would be the better option as she will "fly there" more than at the other school. She also said that visiting the schools the reception children who left the previous year were flying along compared to those in the two form school. She also said DD's confidence has come on lots, but said she feels she may be overwhelmed in a larger school.

Sorry still undecided!! Help.

“Flying along” will utterly depend on the ability of the child and how much effort the parents are putting into reading etc. You don’t really know the individual progress of the DC in either school and, frankly, nor does the nursery worker. They have never assessed each child at school. They simply cannot know any detail at all.

They might have observed playing nicely. Or that DC are engaged at school but how she can justify that some are “flying along” and others are not from a single visit is beyond me. In addition. Neither school would he allowed to share progress info with the nursery worker.

I would really discount this. Has the worker chosen this school? Have you got other parents who might give you a view of the other school? People who can say how their DC are doing?

Pick the nearest one.

My dad gave me this advice and he was right. Good luck.

To be honest I would try to ignore what the nursery worker said. She has a preference for the faith school but that doesn't mean it is better. Sometimes a one form entry school feels cosy and welcoming to 4yos but can be a bit limiting later on. We have a Catholic and non-religious school where we are, although they are the same size, and people have strong opinions both ways!

I would try to work out:

• What makes up the Catholic education? Are you happy with this and the time it takes up?
• Do the Catholic children come from further away and does that matter to you?
• What do you think of both Heads? They set the tone somewhat although obviously can change

My DD is at a 3 form entry school. It initially sounded big but actually is great. More potential friends in the playground and grouped across the year for phonics. I appreciate others may feel differently though.

You need to see both then decide.

We have seen them both and can't decide!!!

@glitterbug have you made any decisions yet?

I think you are over analysing it. They are both good options. Take the one that is most convenient. Most of the criteria you are musing over is really subjective and could change anyway. E.g. teachers and heads leave. Different cohorts of children etc etc. Just pick the easiest to get to.