Reasonable expectations for support for Y4 maths (high ability)

[CurlyMcCurlFace]

Honestly I don't know if DS is "high ability" or if his class are just rather behind. Regardless he is bored to tears with his maths lessons - Year 4.

I spoke to the teacher so many times last year (Y3) about offering him more challenges; it's the same class teacher this year and we've already spoken twice so I'm starting to wonder if I'm expecting too much??!

Basically DS is so far ahead of the majority of the class, the final 'stretch' challenges are like a starter for him and he hates sitting though the teaching part of the lesson. He is well behaved and never makes a fuss. At my insistence there is a folder of further challenges that he is allowed to tackle but they aren't really much better. She suggests after he is done he move onto timestables but he already has instant recall upto 12x12 and is top of the table on TTRS higher timestables so that doesn't really help. I'd really like him to actually learn something at least occasionally- is that too much to expect?? An hour a day doing busy work just seems like such a waste.

I bet that was a while ago. We used to be able to do that but nowadays we're told to keep them within the content for their yeargroup, which is all well and good but with the best will in the world there's only so much stretching you can do within the curriculum

No it was only 5 years ago

My dd and her friend were allowed to go on a maths website during her Year 4 maths. Apparently, online they were working on Year 8/ 9 maths. But her class teacher had previously taught in secondary school so probably knew where to go, curriculum wise.

It might be worth asking to meet with the teacher and the maths lead or similar.

We've had years where the teacher has got it and provided other work, and we've had years where it's been a battle and we've had to engage with more than just the class teacher. All depending on the teacher.

Less experienced teachers may not have taught a child like that before and may well be focusing on getting by.

What is frustrating is when you've got it sorted with the current teacher and then they don't seem to handover the knowledge and solution to the next teacher.

I think you will struggle to find consistent support . UKMT challenges will stretch but without any discussion re strategy are not much help. The school should seek help from MA or AMSP who normally have really engaged representatives

@MalteseBubs

I bet that was a while ago. We used to be able to do that but nowadays we're told to keep them within the content for their yeargroup, which is all well and good but with the best will in the world there's only so much stretching you can do within the curriculum

No it was only 5 years ago

Levels ended from September 2014, but those in year 2 and 6 ended the following year. Under the levels system, children could be stretched, beyond year group, so children in year 8 are the first ones not to have the ability to be stretched beyond their year group ever (although some schools may have continued whilst they implemented the changes).

To come back to this with an update:

It was parents evening yesterday and we agreed a plan. DS is to complete two of the class questions and one stretch each day to show he has on top of the topic and then he can move onto a mastery pack that she has printed for him - which looks good actually. So we will see how that goes.

Whilst you can ask the teacher to give him more difficult work to do, you really can't expect her to teach him individually new concepts. If this happened, twenty nine other kids would be without a teacher. It isn't private tuition. If he is so far beyond the normal stretch challenges then you are being unreasonable to expect more.

@cansu

Whilst you can ask the teacher to give him more difficult work to do, you really can't expect her to teach him individually new concepts. If this happened, twenty nine other kids would be without a teacher. It isn't private tuition. If he is so far beyond the normal stretch challenges then you are being unreasonable to expect more.

I wonder if you would say the same if the OP was saying her child was being left behind rather than being gifted- both ends are special needs and deserve action

Surreyhillsbutnobike regardless of anyone's opinion about what support and adjustments should be provided case law dictates exceptional ability is not a SEN. If you are interested the case is S v SENDIST [2005] EWHC 196 (Admin).

@Imitatingdory

Surreyhillsbutnobike regardless of anyone's opinion about what support and adjustments should be provided case law dictates exceptional ability is not a SEN. If you are interested the case is S v SENDIST [2005] EWHC 196 (Admin).

You are quite correct in a legal sense but all schools I work in treat then as such

I would doubt they are treated the same, otherwise your school has more money than most or not funding SEN. It is true pupil premium children who are academically high, should have opportunities connected to the funding a school recieves for them and some piggy back of funding use can provide some others opportunities but most able, often get no funding allocated and quality first teaching like with SEN is not going to be enough stretch.

@CurlyMcCurlFace How did this work out for you? We're having the same issue with DS saying he's bored. He doesn't seem to be learning anything in maths currently - they're entirely focussed on times tables at the moment and he knows his backwards!

As mentioned in the thread it is a teacher's responsibility to cater for all abilities. It is not right that bright children should have to be taught at home or be forced into the private sector because there's no provision for them in state schools. As someone who's always believed in using the local state school, I find it really disappointing now to see that actually the school seems completely unable to cater for DS's educational needs in maths.

Just to add DS is also in year 4. I don't think the new test on times tables is helping the situation

If you want this level of attention you need to consider private school.

@Crispleaves sorry you are facing similar.

Since October DS has this 'Mastery and Mastery at greater depth' packet which he can work on rather than the class work; we have a copy at home and it's pretty good/makes him think etc.

In addition I've found him a tutor, over zoom once a week. The tutor doesn't do school work with him instead she does interesting/challenging maths (she taught him Pythagoras, pi and other advanced concepts) and he is engaged and interested. I don't know if the tutoring has intrinsic value because I don't think he will be able to remember it (she does like 2 weeks on each topic and then moves on) but it's inspiring and in the process of each topic he is practising other maths skills - she also taught him to use a calculator.

So we are muddling through.

@Viviennemary don't you think the state sector should be for all children? Shouldn't we a country want to foster and develop talent as well as supporting lower achievers to be the best they can?

There is plenty of pie in the sky thinking on her about what education should be like. There will be kids with special talents in every area of the curriculum. Their needs do not trump the needs of the majority in that class. The teacher cannot spend 15 mins teaching maths that is likely from the curriculum for children two or more years ahead while 29 other children are stuck or need help or need their work checking. It is also ridiculous to see children who are advanced as being similar to children with SEN who are well behind their peers. Why not think about where your child is weaker? If he isn't great at art could he work on his art skills in the lesson? If he doesn't know much about history could he do an independent learning project on a historical topic?

Have you looked into private OP - scholarships / bursaries etc?

@Legoninjago1

Have you looked into private OP - scholarships / bursaries etc?

No and this would be an absolute last resort. Aside from this issue I am very happy with the school. DS is very happy and engaged in all other aspects of school life. His sister who has significant SEN with a complex EHCP is cared for amazingly and I am generally the schools biggest fan (I am vocally supportive where appropriate)