WWYD? - atheist surrounded by church schools

[helly29]

Hi all, I'd be interested in any thoughts on what you would do re primary applications in my situation. We're not religious so no christenings/church attendance etc. (didn't want to attend purely for school places on principle, too late now anyway!)

Moved last year, DC1 in y2 at a CofE school only 1.8 miles away, but we live out of the usual catchment area (in year admission, only school with place in his year).

Now applying for DC2 to start in Sep 2022.
First choice is obviously same school as DC1, but admissions criteria put religion above siblings so stressing out a bit.

Closest schools:
Catholic school 0.25 miles away - but non religious category 8 on admissions policy (bottom of the pile)
CofE 1 mile away - last year furthest child admitted 0.92 miles from school
Closest non-religious school 2 miles away - very little chance of getting in.

Have to put three choices - what would you put as 2 and 3?

I would never normally consider a catholic school but may have to suck it up if it's the best thing for them (if they even get in )

Also anyone have experience of appeals success getting children into sibling's school?

Frustrated with the system right now.

Thanks in advance

@Babdoc

How very dare the church provide free education for the poor at a time when the government didn’t. And keeping their own buildings running, and continuing to provide schooling - shocking. Almost as bad as their massive charity work and support of the marginalised throughout the world. One can see why atheists hate them so much. Oh, wait…

I'm not surprised why you don't have the empathy to understand why a non Christian would be frustrated at the situation.

do you have any actual practical advice for the OP or are you just here to have a go at atheists as usual.

But I know some Catholic schools take non Catholics

Oh how generous of them.

There is no place for faith schools in our society, and I say that as a person of faith.

I'm sorry you find yourself in this position op, where your kids are at the bottom of the list for education, that's not right.

There absolutely is a place for faith schools in our society. I highly value my children’s religious education at school, the preparation they have for reviving the sacraments, etc.

The issue is that a faith school shouldn’t be a substitute for a non-faith school. In my opinion they should be an optional extra. There should be space for all children at a non-faith school but if you choose a faith school then you can go:

Ignoring the debate about church schools.

You need to find out what category and distance they usually admit the last child under. 0.25miles would get a non-faith child into most catholic schools round here even though it is 8th in the criteria. It’s not so much about how far down the criteria you are but how far down the criteria they admit. If some faith schools that can be a long way down. You should be able to get this info from the school or LA.

If there’s a few ks1 kids living very close to you/in your road, might also be worth seeing where they go to school. Especially if you know they are non faith. All the kids in our road go to a neighbouring catchment school because you can’t get in to our catchment school but it does show you can get into the neighbouring school as an out of catchment admission. If all the closest schools are faith schools and the nearest non-faith one doesn’t admit near you, then all the non-faith kids must be going somewhere.

I suppose if you got rid of all the C of E schools, catholic schools, you would have to get rid of all the Jewish and Muslim schools too.
I am not a fan of religious schools, but I can't see how local councils would be able to buy and maintain all those schools. It would cost a fortune.
To be fair to the C of E schools, they generally take a very diverse mix of pupils. They are C of E because of history. The church built the schools and continue to maintain the buildings. The LA runs the school.

@endofthelinefinally that's all fine except for setting admission criteria to prioritise practicing Christians. No one should be in the OP's position whereby they will struggle to go to a local school because of their faith, especially if the LA is involved. I don't know how it works but I assume most religious schools aren't entirely self funded?

Yes, I can see that. However, where I live, the C of E schools don't have a faith criterion for their admission process. Only the RC, Jewish and Muslim schools do.
My dd went to the local C of E school and I asked the vicar about it and he very firmly said that they were a community school open to everyone. I suppose it must vary in different areas.

We're considering a Catholic school and were told by the Head Teacher that only 14% of the pupil population is Catholic.

@Babdoc - I don't hate Christians and fully recognise that there is much good done by people of all religions. I have no issue with people having a personal faith. But why should my child be disadvantaged because we don't share the same faith? There's no equality of choice as I have no real non-religious options. Surely the Christian ethos is to be inclusive to all? Fortunately it seems like some posters have schools with this attitude, which is heartening.

@ElephantandGrasshopper - I wouldn't move DC1 again as they've already had such a disrupted start to school with moving and being in/out of school repeatedly with lockdowns etc. Plus the non-religious one is only one of two in the area (the other is about 5 miles away) so very little chance. That would be the dream though!

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay - love the username! I think our neighbour's little girl has just got into the Catholic one - I don't know if they are Catholic or otherwise Christian though. I'm going to arrange a visit to the school to find out the likely radius! Thanks :)

Again, really appreciate everyone's input, glad I'm not the only one who finds it frustrating! Think we'll put the two nearest as 2 and 3 after DC1 school, so at least nobody could say we were asking for schools that were unrealistic. Off to the Humanists UK website in case I need to appeal anything....

For admissions faith is usually near the bottom of the criteria.
It’s generally looked after children, siblings in catchment, catchment, siblings, faith, out of catchment so you have been unlucky to have found a school that puts faith so high.
Why don’t you let your child decide about her own beliefs? You can teach her what you think about faiths, she could hear the other side from the school and then make up her own mind.

@PeachesPumpkin thanks, maybe we're just unlucky! I am happy for the kids to decide what they believe, so long as they treat others well. I've always been respectful and neutral about the religious aspect. If they've asked I've explained what I believe and why, but let them know they can decide for themselves.

So it's the restriction in choice which is my main issue, rather than the fact that they will go to a church school.

Why don’t you let your child decide about her own beliefs?

Why are you assuming OP won't? The best way of ensuring a child has the freedom to make their own mind up is to not be educated in a religious establishment.

@PeachesPumpkin

For admissions faith is usually near the bottom of the criteria. It’s generally looked after children, siblings in catchment, catchment, siblings, faith, out of catchment so you have been unlucky to have found a school that puts faith so high. Why don’t you let your child decide about her own beliefs? You can teach her what you think about faiths, she could hear the other side from the school and then make up her own mind.

Around here, the Catholic schools even put looked after non Catholic children way down the list. They try to keep non Catholics out by putting non Catholic siblings down the list to put off anyone. Doesn't totally feel like it's what Jesus would do!

It's absolutely outrageous that you are in this position. Faith schools have no place in State education, neither does a daily act of collective worship.
I have no issue with private religious schools, but I object to a single penny of my tax money going towards funding them.

We are in a similar situation. Three local primaries. One CofE...many parents, by their own admission, are attending church to collect the required stamps and have no intention of setting foot in there once their child has a school place.
One Roman Catholic.
One absolutely massive non-faith (five form entry!)
We therefore have no choice.

We are sending our children to private prep school because a large school simply isn't right for them and we do not want them being taught Christian teachings as fact.

Where I live the CofE Voluntary Controlled schools are not owners of the land or their buildings. The Aided ones are and employ their staff. When I worked for the LA, not a single school has money from the Diocese Education board for running the school. The LA paid every £. It also did for capital expenditure and maintenance on the Controlled schools too. Fortunately the Controlled schools used no religious affiliation with regard to admissions. Some of the Aided ones didn’t either.

I think you are very unlucky OP. The schools you have are exclusive and not inclusive. It’s poor.

It's so wrong. I can't believe children are discriminated against based on their parents lack of faith!
Have you checked who gets awarded places each year? It's published by the LA.
Our school prioritises children who attend the local church (not any church). On average only about 2-3 children per class actually get in on that criteria. Mostly it's siblings which affect the distance criteria the most. A high sibling year means you have to live within catchment to stand a chance. Is it going to be a high sibling year? - you can usually work it out if you are already at the school.

@TizerorFizz

Where I live the CofE Voluntary Controlled schools are not owners of the land or their buildings. The Aided ones are and employ their staff. When I worked for the LA, not a single school has money from the Diocese Education board for running the school. The LA paid every £. It also did for capital expenditure and maintenance on the Controlled schools too. Fortunately the Controlled schools used no religious affiliation with regard to admissions. Some of the Aided ones didn’t either.

I think you are very unlucky OP. The schools you have are exclusive and not inclusive. It’s poor.

If you are right that the VC schools don't own the land and buildings that would be highly unusual. Unlike VA schools they are not required to make any contribution towards capital costs and they are controlled by the LA, but the land and buildings are almost invariably owned by a charitable foundation which also appoints around one quarter of the governors.