Picking a school (to move or not?)

[feelingsicknow]

DS has just turned 3. Nursery mums I know are starting to ask which school we'll be sending him to etc?...

I am now stressed out beyond belief.

The 'best' school in our area (Surrey) is a catholic school and whilst we are very close by and MIGHT scrape in (according to their most recent admissions data), I don't think I want a religious ed for my child. I grew up in Glasgow with so much religious nonsense I don't believe in that aspect of schooling. The next best school is OFSTED rated the same but according to the Snope website (which I've only just discovered tonight) comes miles behind in relation to other aspects of rating....

Im now thinking we might have to move to another local area (less than a couple of miles away) to get in to one of the better state primary schools that rate higher in Snopes. Am I nuts? How much difference is there, if they are both rated 'Good' by OFSTED?

He may go to private secondary school but I didn't think primary was worth the expense. Am I wrong?

First question - how long ago were the ofsted inspections? For a good school it can be more than 5 years between inspections, and a lot can change in that time especially if the head has left.

Catholic school (our closest) 2019 Good
Other primary (our second closest) 2016 good

Potential other one requiring a move Good 2019

Sorry to hijack the thread but what is the snope website please?

When are their open days? I’d go and visit to get a feel for the schools.

Forgive me - it's 'snobe'. Not 'snope'! I'd literally never heard of it until some online research this evening.

How much time do you have to go to open days etc? I'm so conscious about deadlines etc that people talk about - would it seem silly if I asked to go to an open day even though he's not likely to go until the year after next?

I realise this might all sound so daft. I grew up in an area of Glasgow with an abundance of good state schools all around - you just went to your local one and the associated secondary (religion appropriate). I'm so confused by the choices down here. I'm an educated adult with a good job and feel flummoxed by the English system!

Thank you! I think there is a wide variation under the ofsted umbrella of good, would definitely visit a few.

If they are not that far apart would you get into school 3 from present address. LA website should show how many admitted under each category this year and furthest pupil. You can still apply listing it as first preference and second nearest second. None of your friends can be certain of a place at a particular school yet.

I hadn't thought about applying to something out-with our 'catchment' area TBH? Purely because of the logistics of getting him to and from school when we are both likely to be back in the office (don't even start me on wraparound care, my head will explode).

But maybe I should expand my research to the other area without necessarily the need for a move? Very good point...

This won't help with deciding which one you want, but just wanted to make sure you're clear that with the English system you can list 3-6 schools (depending on area) and there is an equal preference system, so each one is in effect a separate application. Applicants are listed in order of the published admission criteria for each school, and you are then offered the one highest on your list that you qualify for (as everyone can only have one offer), and this is the only time that the order you list schools in matters. You don't get priority for putting a school first- if I put a school first and you put it sixth, but you meet the admissions criteria better than me (e.g. by living nearer), you would get the place ahead of me (assuming you hadn't got into any of the schools you listed higher). It is best to list the schools in your genuine order of preference, including at least one that you can be fairly sure you'll get a place at. Also, ignore any rumours about 'if you only list one school/list the same school in all your slots they have to give it to you'.

Surrey does not have fixed catchment areas. You need to look at the priority criteria for each school and in case of oversubscription. The Catholic school may well prioritise baptism and attendance at Mass, those living in a specific parish, over siblings or distance.

I'd take it all with a pinch of salt.

Take a deep breath, look at the realistic options - the ones that are designated for your address, that you can get to easily etc

Decide what your priorities are as a family is not a faith school, has breakfast club or whatever.

Read and consider the Ofsted report - which elements were rated in what ways. What were the recommendations for improvement etc. Who was the head at the time? Are they in post now? Was it recent enough to be a reflection of the current school set up? Etc etc

Visit, look around, drive past at pick up time. The vast majority of schools will have people who are just like you - interested, engaged parents who want the best for their children.

If at all possible, go for the school that is easiest to get to - walkable if possible.

Know that 9/10 it all turns out ok.

OP,
Personally, as a teacher, I'd discount OFSTED ratings as they often aren't an accurate representation of the school and more about the political climate for education at the time (the reports themselves can be useful though). The Snope website is also out of date: the data for my local area is currently 4 years out of date but doesn't actually say that anywhere on it.

For me, attainment and progress data are far more important. Those will give you the best idea about the quality of education that happens year on year. You can find these on the compare schools website and individual schools should also list them on their own sites.

Can't believe how many useful replies there have been already (at this time on a Saturday night too!). I am about to read them all properly but thank you so much for the advice thus far!

I lived in NW Surrey and the Catholic diocese changed their admissions criteria so if you weren't a practicing Catholic then you came way down the allocation list!

My kids ate grown now but I can categorically tell you that ofsted ratings are a poor guide to which schools are good. My children's first school was ranked excellent, so many problems, we parents filled in the feedback forms during the inspection and still it got excellent despite us (small school) all making extensive complaints. Second school (moved areas) excellent in my opinion but ranked good, third school (attached juniors separate head) ranked excellent so many problems including a head who told me girls couldn't be autistic (my dd was diagnosed at 2)

I would say take a step back here, I doubt things are as bad as you think! I have just looked on that website for our local schools. We're on the Surrey/London border with a nearby Catholic popular school. I noticed for our schools:

• out of date Ofsted reports. I know they all had Ofsted in 2019 but it is still showing the 2012 ones. This makes me wonder how out of date the results are too, plus they are reported at 11, which is about 9 years away for your child. Our junior school is reporting a poor result in reading, which I know is being tackled based on the 2019 Ofsted report
• obvious errors. Our junior school apparently has 35 children per full time teacher, which is clearly wrong (unless there are part time teachers being excluded for some reason)
• the Catholic school has fewer children on free school meals. This is because people travel for the Catholic school and in some cases go to church for a school place. This means the school population is on average more affluent and engaged in learning. This means they really should be getting better results, although in our case there was no big difference between the scores quoted for both.

I would dig a bit deeper and feel free to post here about your queries. It may be your local school is actually doing well. Plus definitely visit. It's completely fine to visit this year even though your child is younger.

Also look on your LA website. There will be an admissions booklet for this year and there should be a calculator showing how far you are from schools. It will give you an idea of where you will realistically get a place.

My DS's school is not the best on paper but I have sent them out of catchment to go there. As well as ofsted, attainment, clubs etc I think you need to look at the ethos and culture of the school to see if it will be a good fit. Our school is fairly small and very nurturing, the school's core values are things like compassion, forgiveness and truth and there is a huge emphasis on inclusion and self esteem, which having been bullied a lot as a child really matters to me. DS2 has additional needs and has flourished there. But for someone looking for perhaps a more competitive environment it might not be right. Visits are key too, you need to see the places and meet the staff.

That snobe website is fairly hopeless, never mind being out of date it doesn't even mention our two closest (state) primary schools! Definitely don't rely on it. Go to the Surrey school admissions page if you are in Surrey and use the school finder tool where you put in your postcode and it will identify nearby schools. Depending on where you are also worth looking over the local authority border if it's close.

Go and look at the schools and make your own mind up. Talk to parents with children there (though take what they say with a pinch of salt). do not make decisions on Ofsted or Snobe (which I've never heard of either).

Look at last year's admissions data. That will give you a clue as to which schools you have any chance of getting into.
Find out how "religious" the catholic school actually is. All schools (even those with no religious affiliation) have to include an element of religious worship.

(I've now just looked at Snobe and can't even work out what aspects of rating you are talking about. If you mean KS2 results you should remember they didn't take place in the last 2 years, and need to be viewed with a lens of "capability of intake".)

Our LA asks that all primary applications are with them by 15th January - if you move, the chances are you won't be in your preferred catchment schools area in time to make an application.

We've started to look at schools for 2022 reception intake. I can't decide either. DH is Catholic and we've viewed the local Catholic school, but feeder secondary is a good 45 minutes away. DD is also an only child and Catholic school is small, worrying about friendships and local friends already!

Go look at the schools. That’s honestly critical. Don’t go on ofsted alone. I’m an ex teacher & my first teaching job was at an outstanding school. I wouldn’t choose to send my child there at all. It was all about appearances & exam results. No time for the children who wouldn’t bump up their SATs results. A complete disregard to children’s need to play & be imaginative & creative. The TA’s would redo the kids artwork for the walls 😒 I hated it. It did not match my views nor anything I had been taught on my teacher training degree. They were also lazy as Outstanding schools don’t get re-Ofsteded. Our local outstanding school here hasn’t been fully inspected since 2008 😱

The good schools were always the best. The ones I experienced were far less up themselves, far less rigid & far more concerned about their kids being themselves & happy. They are striving for that outstanding grade but not restricted by it.

My DD goes to a lovely, ‘good’ school. I just knew when I walked in that it was the school for us. The head spoke passionately about the kids wellbeing & their childhood. There was art all over the walls. They do forest school once a week in all year groups. Reception is 90% play based. For us, perfect. I want my child to do well in her education but I also want her to be a child, to be happy & to be encouraged no matter whether she excels in maths or music. I know our school will do this.

Go see them OP. Find out the ethos & make sure it matches yours.

Our LA asks that all primary applications are with them by 15th January - if you move, the chances are you won't be in your preferred catchment schools area in time to make an application.

OP's DC is only just 3. So she has a whole year to move :)