Private primary vs state

[Iwonder08]

I would appreciate your thoughts and experience on private primary vs state..
We have 1 child, won't have any more. Live in London, there are quite a few both state schools and private primary ones around. All state schools in the area are Ofsted Good, there are some private schools that are considered excellent. I can't decide if the extortionate amount of money is worth it for a primary school. There are no very good state secondary schools or grammar schools around so it is likely we will consider at least secondary private.
Literally 50%of people are telling me it is a waste of money to pay for a private primary and the other 50% think the child will struggle in a private secondary after state primary (assuming they can even get in the highly selective secondary schools around us).
We can afford it, but not very comfortably.

We went the outstanding state primary route and I’m wavering tbh. Think will look at year 3 entry and make a decision then. I’d ideally like to continue with state primary as I’d rather save for secondary. My daughter is complaining of a lot of low level disruption but she loves the school overall. The extra curricular offer is ok for sport but largely non existent for music.

TBH I've never really seen the worth of private primary education. Parental influence is far and away the most important thing at that age, so a well supported child will do well in any primary school in all likelihood and prep seems a bit of overkill to me. It's not like you're necessary going to build up lifelong connections or influence at that age.

I do see that private secondary can make a huge influence, it shouldn't, but it does. Certainly if state secondary choices around you are poor and you can afford private at that age, you'd probably want to go private for the high aspirations/expectations and, if you want that kind of thing, social connection. DH is private educated the whole way through and while he's never been connected or used that in his career, I'd say the whole self-confident attitude has helped him in his work (and occasionally hampered him, in all honesty though!)

But even if I could afford it, I wouldn't bother with private primary.

*huge difference, not influence!

It really depends on the schools rather than state versus indie and what your child's needs are. However, lots of state school children get into private secondaries including large numbers to the most selective London day schools. You will typically need to do work outside of school to prepare for the exams but it's a fairly common approach.

If you have good schools around that progress students well including highly able students, private school is a luxury probably not worth paying for if it would be a stretch. I'm speaking only about the merits academically but of course there are loads of other very important pros and cons to weigh up between schools like pastoral care, etc.

I am a private school parent by the way and very happy but I know its not the end all and be all.

Just moved one of mine. Worth every penny. I should have done it earlier. Make sure you pick a premium prep school, though. My child was supposedly ‘excelling’ at his state primary, but now he’s in private he is being challenged far more. I put it off for the early years, thinking there was little difference. I was wrong, there is a massive difference.

If it would be a stretch then I wouldn’t bother especially not for the pre-prep years. If the goal is selective secondary then you could move at 7/8 to get the prep years as private. You could also tutor. I have mine at a private pre-prep and the small class sizes are nice, as are the specialist subject lessons and the wrap around care is handy as we both work, but it’s definitely not the be all and end all.

Both my DDs are at a private primary and we think it's great. Small class sizes. Teacher and TA in each class of 16 max. 7:45am-6pm wrap around care. Endless extra curricular, tonnes of sport, music, yoga, forest schools, trips, all included in the price. It is expensive, but worth it to us. The school goes from 2-18 years and we hope to keep them both there, all being well financially.

My DS is at private secondary after state primary. He is on a par if not exceeding his private primary peers. Yes the private primary school would have been better if money was no object but its had no detriment. However I do think there is so much more that a private secondary school can offer than a state one.

Depends totally on the state primary surely? I teach in a state school with a class size of 16. Last year was 15. Low level disruption is pretty much non-existent. Children swim every week all through juniors and learn an instrument for most of the year too. I can't honestly imagine the difference in a private school would be worth the tens of thousands of pounds over several years. I've also taught in schools where the offering is nothing like what they'd get in the private sector.

It's justified on the idea of the Jesuits that 'if you give me the boy until 7, I will show you the man'

If you see these years as laying the foundations of the whole school experience, then it can be very worth it. Do you see schooling as the whole jourbpnet, or the means to a destination?

Also, affordability - two schools if thought, pay now because you can afford it, decide later what happens later. Because all sorts of things happen in life and if you have a stroke of bad luck, then maybe you won't be able to pay for secondary even if you have saved. Or you might be offered a wonderful opportunity elsewhere, or decide to move for some other reason, which could completely change you ideas about which schools might suit your DC well.

Thanks everyone... Not an easy decision..

If you are in an 11+ area then getting in at primary to avoid the 11+ is worth doing.

Our London private primary prepared children for the senior school exams extremely well. You don’t get that in the state system, and so will have to prepare separately with tutors and/ or parents.Perfectly possible of course.
London , as you know is very competitive for senior independent schools.so for us that was a great benefit in securing offers.

11+ is exactly what worries me. The secondary independent schools are highly competitive.

@Iwonder08

11+ is exactly what worries me. The secondary independent schools are highly competitive.

whereabouts in London are you? Is it the SHHS/UCS/NLCS/Habs/Channing/City etc etc madness>

We are NW, UCS is on top of our list.. They have 6 times more applications vs places for 7+ and 10 times more applications vs places at 11+..depressing

Do lots of research, whatever you decide. With State and Private, you are not comparing like with like. A 'Good' Ofsted report comes with an official stamp of (reasonable) approval. It is not to be compared with a private school that parents consider 'excellent', nor with an ISI inspection.

My dc went to state primary - private never an option financially - got offered several academic bursaries at 11 when they switched to private. They were still ahead of most private peers and were not at any academic disadvantage in fact due to year 6 SATS they were probably pushed more and year 7 was largely repeat work for them. They said there was a lot of poor behaviour in private school which would not have been accepted in a more diverse state primary eg homophobic name calling. So on that basis I can’t say private primary would have been worth the money but accept my dc were bright and would have done well anywhere. I can see the point smaller classes if dc struggle more academically. I paid for a small amount of tuition before entrance exams as there was some stuff their primary hadn’t covered on tests but that was fine tuning rather than because they were behind. Private secondary has been great but they would probably say they liked bigger classes from a friendship group point of view as they can find the private school a bit small.

I keep hearing about bright kids doing well in any school. How do you people know if your kids are bright at the age of 2-3? You need to make a decision before it is clear if they are gifted/talanted or would benefit from smaller classes or slow learner..

Development is very uneven in young children. Very gifted children do tend to stand out though there isn’t any single universal trait.

Look at how well your local schools progress pupils by characteristic. The prior high attainment group in a lot of good state schools come out with similar SATS as academically selective preps as it’s essentially the same cohort. Take a look to really compare your options. Most preps don’t do SATS anymore but when they did results were typically 112 to 116 for top academic preps across categories. I suspect many stopped doing SATS because it became obvious there wasn’t that much value add compared to really good state schools.

If your child is not just bright but gifted (top 2 percent or higher) that’s when the right private primary can be worth it as state budgets make catering to real outliers much harder. Same for SEN. Again not all private schools are good at this and some state schools are fantastic but budgets can be an issue and the right private primary might cater better to specific needs.

If you can’t afford private primary easily it’s not worth it. If your child is able they will get in to a suitable secondary school with exam prep. You’ll likely miss out on a more well rounded primary experience regarding sport, music, art etc. But that’s not worth struggling financially for and can be partially done out of school for a lot less money.

@Iwonder08

We are NW, UCS is on top of our list.. They have 6 times more applications vs places for 7+ and 10 times more applications vs places at 11+..depressing

UCS is an amazing school. Don't forget that at 7 and 11 most kids will be applying for 4 or more schools so that brings the numbers down. Also always worth being on the list for occasional places as they come up more often than you would think. good luck.

I wouldn’t bother if you have a good State option for Primary
Save your money so that Private Secondary is more comfortable for you.
Also we found that our DC were much more mature and streetwise than most of their peers in Y7 who had been at the school since age 3 or 4. DD is at a large 6th form college now and some of her friends from school find it terrifying having been in such a small somewhat sheltered environment for their whole school life.
Both DCs had friends from Primary they kept in touch with so had 2 friendship groups and DD is reconnecting with many of her Primary friends. In fact last Saturday DS met a mixed group of friends from his old Primary and his new Secondary and they all got on brilliantly.

Neither of mine were behind when they joined in Y7 and DD got an academic scholarship competing with kids from The Prep.
I appreciate that it might be different if the Secondary is selective though (ours isn’t)

Speak to your child's nursery and ask their opinion on their progress and schools if you are unsure of their potential and how bright they are.

My personal experience of 11+ prep from a state primary was awful - I absolutely hated the tutoring and additional work that was suddenly put upon me when I was 8/9 years old. I found it stressful and rebelled. According to my parents, I was extremely bright at 4 when starting reception but was not pushed in school and lost that love for learning that I had prior to this. Finding the motivation thereafter was extremely hard for them. I did get there eventually and got very good academic end results but the in between was not great and I don't have the best memories of primary school

Admittedly, state primary schools have changed significantly over the past 25 years but ultimately, they still do not prep towards 11+. In comparison, a prep school will introduce these things from early on and it will be covered in the school day and curriculum so they are not coming home and then doing school work, tuition, tuition homework and any extra curricular activities they choose. Work is intense at my DD's prep because we opted for a competitive academic school - we felt this suited her best - but less intense prep schools also achieve excellent results

If finances are no issue, I would go for a through 18 from 4 then 11+ is not a factor at all. In this case, I would also be very careful to ensure we did lots of activities outside of school that broadened their social circle and exposure to people from different backgrounds