In-year admission - no place given for another month

VHLV · 2021-09-07T06:40:24+00:00

Looking for some advice please...we have moved to another London borough in July this year. Our son was in Year R: we were first in the queue to our preferred school so we were hoping to get in by now. Yesterday we were told that we are now second in the queue. All other schools are full and we are on the waiting lists. Our son has missed education in July and is missing education now and that's after covid home schooling last year... is there anything we can do?

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SillyBub · 07/09/2021 07:43

Has your son been offered a school place? He should have been even if it's not one of your preferred schools. What action did you take on receiving that offer?

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 07:55

@SillyBub

Has your son been offered a school place? He should have been even if it's not one of your preferred schools. What action did you take on receiving that offer?

No we haven't received a school place at all, the council says to check our position in a queue with the schools...

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Aroundtheworldin80moves · 07/09/2021 07:59

There will be a time limit before they count as out of education. Look on the council website for the Fair Access Protocol. This is a process where a school can go over numbers, but not necessarily at a school of your choice

Meanwhile submit an Appeal.

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:04

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

There will be a time limit before they count as out of education. Look on the council website for the Fair Access Protocol. This is a process where a school can go over numbers, but not necessarily at a school of your choice

Meanwhile submit an Appeal.

Thank you so much for the information... we haven't been offered any place so I'm not sure what to appeal really.

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LIZS · 07/09/2021 08:08

If you have been formally declined for a place, you can appeal although an Infant Class Size one will be difficult. The LA has to offer a place somewhere. Otherwise if no place available the LA may invoke Fair Access Protocol and go over 30. Is his previous school too far?

meditrina · 07/09/2021 08:10

@prh47bridge - what's your take on this?

You don't say when you moved - how long was your DS out of education for in July?

It can take 3 weeks or so to get an in-year place, and of course it might not be at your preferred school. But I think you need to talk to someone in admissions and get it very clearly on record how long your DS has been out of education, that it is their duty to find a place in a reasonable time and to find out when they will activate the FAP on his behalf.

Bear in mind that the start of the school year can be a complicated time as they might be waiting to see if everyone has turned up for the start of term (not everyone remembers to cancel a place if they move) and to check that no-shows are relinquishing their place, not absent for another reason

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:13

@LIZS

If you have been formally declined for a place, you can appeal although an Infant Class Size one will be difficult. The LA has to offer a place somewhere. Otherwise if no place available the LA may invoke Fair Access Protocol and go over 30. Is his previous school too far?

We haven't been formally offered a place so I'm not sure how we can officially appeal. Our previous school is more than 100 miles away.

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LIZS · 07/09/2021 08:17

You can appeal on that basis as long as you applied and were declined. Sometimes that prompts an offer.

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:18

[quote meditrina]@prh47bridge - what's your take on this?

You don't say when you moved - how long was your DS out of education for in July?

It can take 3 weeks or so to get an in-year place, and of course it might not be at your preferred school. But I think you need to talk to someone in admissions and get it very clearly on record how long your DS has been out of education, that it is their duty to find a place in a reasonable time and to find out when they will activate the FAP on his behalf.

Bear in mind that the start of the school year can be a complicated time as they might be waiting to see if everyone has turned up for the start of term (not everyone remembers to cancel a place if they move) and to check that no-shows are relinquishing their place, not absent for another reason[/quote]
We have moved on July 2nd. The admissions emailed me yesterday saying "the system was updated so you can check your place with the schools" so I assume they already know who's left and how many places available. All the schools around us (within 30 mins walk) are full in Year 1. The school of our choice got a place but we were moved down the queue in summer. What worries me is that the place won't become available for another 2-3 months. What shall we do during this time?

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Aroundtheworldin80moves · 07/09/2021 08:22

How many school have you formally applied for? Just the one? Or the local ones?

SavoyCabbage · 07/09/2021 08:27

This happened to me when we moved. My dd was in year four at the time and had no school place at all for three months. It was a red-tape nightmare. The schools wouldn't tell me if they had a space or not and neither would the LEA.
I had to apply for a place using the in year admissions form which went to admissions.
Then they sent it to the school.
Then the school would say they didn't have a place but by LETTER so the whole process took two weeks.
Then I would submit an appeal for that school and at the same time but in a different form apply for a different school.

In the end I got a place at my catchment school under Fair Access Protocol. And this was KS2 so easier to appeal.

Admissions were absolutely rubbish. At one point the woman went on holiday and I just had to wait.

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:37

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

How many school have you formally applied for? Just the one? Or the local ones?

3 local schools, we would be happy to apply for the 4th one but it's strictly Catholic so they are not very happy with us

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Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:38

@SavoyCabbage

This happened to me when we moved. My dd was in year four at the time and had no school place at all for three months. It was a red-tape nightmare. The schools wouldn't tell me if they had a space or not and neither would the LEA. I had to apply for a place using the in year admissions form which went to admissions. Then they sent it to the school. Then the school would say they didn't have a place but by LETTER so the whole process took two weeks.

Then I would submit an appeal for that school and at the same time but in a different form apply for a different school.

In the end I got a place at my catchment school under Fair Access Protocol. And this was KS2 so easier to appeal.

Admissions were absolutely rubbish. At one point the woman went on holiday and I just had to wait.

Oh dear.. would you advise to go for the fair access protocol right away? What is the procedure exactly? I've never heard about this one before the other comment

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UserAtLargeAgain · 07/09/2021 08:38

Just to check I'm clear what happened here.

You made an in-year application to (several?) local schools in your new area.
Your applications were declined (schools full) and you weren't offered any other school?

This isn't correct - you should be offered a place somewhere (even if it's not of your choosing). Does your LEA know that your DC has no school place? You need to be contacting them asap.

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:42

@UserAtLargeAgain

Just to check I'm clear what happened here.

You made an in-year application to (several?) local schools in your new area.
Your applications were declined (schools full) and you weren't offered any other school?

This isn't correct - you should be offered a place somewhere (even if it's not of your choosing). Does your LEA know that your DC has no school place? You need to be contacting them asap.

Yes that's correct. I'm in touch with the LEA and as I said they advised me to check the queue directly with the schools. There are no places at schools despite everyone telling us that there is lots of movement. Year R classes have 31 kids already at the schools around us.

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SavoyCabbage · 07/09/2021 08:44

Oh dear.. would you advise to go for the fair access protocol right away? What is the procedure exactly? I've never heard about this one before the other comment
I don't know enough about it really. I got a lot of excellent advice on here though from people who do know!

My situation wasn't the same though as they claimed that they couldn't give her a place anywhere in the whole county, which is a big one. It wasn't just schools I wanted that had no places.

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:47

@SavoyCabbage

Oh dear.. would you advise to go for the fair access protocol right away? What is the procedure exactly? I've never heard about this one before the other comment I don't know enough about it really. I got a lot of excellent advice on here though from people who do know!

My situation wasn't the same though as they claimed that they couldn't give her a place anywhere in the whole county, which is a big one. It wasn't just schools I wanted that had no places.

OMG if you don't mind me asking what was the problem exactly? I thought the school place is a given to any child...

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Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 08:50

@UserAtLargeAgain

Just to check I'm clear what happened here.

You made an in-year application to (several?) local schools in your new area.
Your applications were declined (schools full) and you weren't offered any other school?

This isn't correct - you should be offered a place somewhere (even if it's not of your choosing). Does your LEA know that your DC has no school place? You need to be contacting them asap.

Sorry just to clarify - there was a LA in-year admission form where we listed several school (all schools) within 25-30 mins walking distance. The LA replied officially that there is no place at those schools and put us on the waiting list since 2nd July. No place is available yet but our main concern is that we move down the queue at all schools despite our school of choice being CoE one and we are the church goers. We were number 1 in the queue before the summer holidays but 2 people went ahead of us :(

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UserAtLargeAgain · 07/09/2021 08:55

You need to ask the LEA about which schools do have places then.
And then pick the best of them and apply to that.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 07/09/2021 09:12

The waiting lists are in priority order not time order so yes people will 'go ahead' depending on the schools admission criteria commonly if they are looked after children or have a statement naming the school. That is how things work and nothing you can do on that. This is why it's not good to rely on waiting lists as your place can go up as well as down.

Also I am confused about 'will have a place in 2 months time'. It's quite unusual for a school to know that for sure (I guess it's possible if a family have notified a leaving date but people's plans fall through on that kind of stuff) and indeed someone higher up the list might come along for that place so I would not be relying on the idea that there will be a place in 2-3 months.

The LA do have a duty to find a place for your son though. It might not be at one of the preferred schools but they do need to make an offer. I don't think it's right that they ask you to check the waiting lists. They should know where the places are and offer you one and if there isn't one at all then that's where the FAP kicks in

The danger is if you are offered a place at a non desired school and you refuse it then they have no further obligation to you so you never refuse a place if offered.

prh47bridge · 07/09/2021 09:25

This is not acceptable. If there are places available anywhere the LA must offer them. Failing that, assuming your son has been out of education for at least 4 weeks, they should be invoking the Fair Access Protocol to find a place for your child.

You should appeal for all the schools for which you have applied. The letter telling you that you haven't been awarded a place should tell you how to appeal. You can win an appeal on the basis that there are no places within a reasonable distance from home and therefore your son should have been admitted as an excepted child. I wouldn't be surprised if the LA somehow managed to find a place for your son before any of the appeals are heard.

If your son has missed four or more weeks of education, you should ask the LA why they haven't invoked the Fair Access Protocol. If they argue about it, mention Admissions Code paragraph 3.17(l) - that's the bit of the 2021 Admissions Code that makes it clear your son is eligible to be considered under the FAP.

Original poster

VHLV · 07/09/2021 09:29

@prh47bridge

This is not acceptable. If there are places available anywhere the LA must offer them. Failing that, assuming your son has been out of education for at least 4 weeks, they should be invoking the Fair Access Protocol to find a place for your child.

You should appeal for all the schools for which you have applied. The letter telling you that you haven't been awarded a place should tell you how to appeal. You can win an appeal on the basis that there are no places within a reasonable distance from home and therefore your son should have been admitted as an excepted child. I wouldn't be surprised if the LA somehow managed to find a place for your son before any of the appeals are heard.

If your son has missed four or more weeks of education, you should ask the LA why they haven't invoked the Fair Access Protocol. If they argue about it, mention Admissions Code paragraph 3.17(l) - that's the bit of the 2021 Admissions Code that makes it clear your son is eligible to be considered under the FAP.

Thank you so much for an invaluable advice, you have been very helpful 🙏🏻

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SavoyCabbage · 07/09/2021 13:27

OMG if you don't mind me asking what was the problem exactly? I thought the school place is a given to any child...
I think the biggest problem was they were incompetent. They just didn't seem to have any information about where there were places. They didn't offer me any place at any school at all. They just kept making me apply on a paper form and then telling me two weeks later there wasn't a place. It was ridiculous. That's not the norm though!