Question for primary Teaching Assistants and Learning support assistant?

[Bewildered2021]

Could you cope in a year 3 class with just yourself and the class teacher with 2 special needs allocated to you? One child has an EHCP and needs regular breaks . Is this a normal scenario?
Thanks

It is in the school I work in🤨

Only 2 ?

Sounds good.
Of course, does depend on the needs of each individual. There is no set "amount of support" that a child with SEND needs, EHCP or not.

Watching with interest

It would depend entirely on the children & the class. If you feel that their needs are not being met or that they are not safe then you should raise it as a priority.

Was once in an open classroom with 85 primary ones, 3 teachers and at least 8 kids with pretty severe additional support needs. We had to share one PSA on a rota with the other half of our unit. Was the most intense and difficult work I’ve ever done

On paper I was a 1:1 for an SEN child who had an EHCP but the reality was that I was also supporting 3/4 other children who didn't have the EHCP but struggled with learning for other reasons.
Sadly it wasn't a question of whether we could cope or not, we had more and more children joining the school that required additional support with EHCPs supposedly in the pipeline and not enough LSAs to go around. I found myself managing a lot better once I switched to PPA cover - loved the school but the LSA role is one I don't miss.

Thanks for the replies. I was under the impression the TA or class LSA also has to support the other 28 kids too?

I totally get that there isn’t enough funding and the reasons why this happens but I just wondered if it was even doable... In my childs’s reception , year 1 and year 2 class there were always 3 adults . This has been reduced to 2 just as it gets more difficult.

You are lucky to have two adults! There is absolutely no money in schools for the support that is required.

In my childs’s reception , year 1 and year 2 class there were always 3 adults . This has been reduced to 2 just as it gets more difficult.

How does it get more difficult, as they get into Yr3 ?
Most dc would be more independent as they get older. Far less likely to be toilet accidents and children who struggle to do their shoes up or find their coat.

By 3 adults, are you meaning Teacher, TA, and then a LSA to support the child(ren) with SEND? If so, it is pretty normal for there to be no TA in KS2. Or certainly not full time.

I work in a junior school as 1:1.
In
The infants there are 1:1 plus TAs who are classroom assistant type TAs.

All the junior TAs work 1:1 plus whatever additional is needed.

How it worked in my school was that the LSA 1:1 should support one, or potentially two children exclusively. The TA would support the teacher with the whole class, class admin or small group work but not assigned to one child permanently. The funding for LSA is for a specific child’s needs. Now, say that child is off for whatever reason, the LSA can join in supporting the general class.

If you are an LSA supporting two special needs the decision has been made that those children can cope with sharing an LSA. Perhaps they can be paired up, on the same table as you, or, they might have completely different needs. Ie one needs physical support with hygiene, help with eating and at break time, and the other needs more targeted help during lessons. It’s he’s to say without knowing the circumstances.
It sounds doable to me.

A colleague is coping with 2 SEN children (only one with EHCP) AND acting TA because the TA is off sick.

Is she frazzled? Yes.

Is she coping? Yes.

It's down to having a 'can do' attitude and a willingness to be a 'team player'. Just my opinion OP. I appreciate that everyone's experience it different though.

Most Year 3 classes would just have a class teacher with no class TA.

Depends how many hours the child with EHCP has allocated and how severe the needs of the other child with SEN are though.

As others have said, class lsas are becoming much rarer in KS2 classes- budgets just don't allow for them. If there is a child with an EHCO, they may have a 1-1, but not necessarily- it depends on their needs. If there are more children with needs in the class, but without an EHCO the teacher just has to cope. We usually do but it can be exhausting.

We are getting to the point where the ONLY classroom support will be provided where a child has additional funding to support an EHCP, our classroom TAs are not being replaced when they leave. We simply can't afford it.

Depends how the TA time is actually allocated and made up. If it's there to 1-1 support a child on EHCPs then it's fucking sketchy of the school to be skirting around that (although if there's a TA there 1-1 with a child you'd kind of expect them to do things like "what date is it" from other kids on the table). If it's like I used to have when I last taught when the TA was there part of the week as EHCP hours for a specific child but then the same TA also had some hours as a class-based TA - then it would be more acceptable - but I always made sure I carefully documented and made sure hours were used according to what they should be.

In terms of TA/LSA support, it tends to reduce as the children get older as they become more independent. It would be unusual for a Y3 class to have a full time TA unless there were a lot of needs. It’s not the case that’s it’s more difficult in Y3?

Completely normal in my experience. Class TA's in a year three class are incredibly unusual so there would only be a TA if a child had a one-to-one.

Only got a 1:1 TA in my class of 31. I've got other children with learning difficulties but I just have to manage.
It's hard work, but I can only try my best.

In my current class I have 2 children with an EHCP (both non-verbal and with multiple diagnoses) and 2 more with medical conditions that mean that they have to be monitored closely and have someone call an ambulance in particular situations.

There's no funding for further support so we just have to get on with it as best we can. That includes things like doubling up with a TA from another class to change nappies and pull-ups for children in both classes because safeguarding means that intimate care is never done by a lone adult.

I can't think of a single class in the school where they don't have several children in need of a lot of support and only a single TA to provide it. This can be particularly challenging when you have a child with a high level of need and then a second one who is a 'runner' who needs to be shadowed until SLT arrive.

That's not even counting the children in the class with SEN or other circumstances that mean they need more support than most children.

Schools are chronically underfunded.

I don't think enough people are aware that that is quite usual @PawsNotClaws

We don't have any general classroom TAs and most of the 1-1s aren't covered full time. It's just the class teacher alone + 30 children (minimum) and no extra help for children with SEN.

Ideally should they have a 1:1? Yes.
Does it always work out that way? No.

I used to be a school governor in my children's primary.
When the eldest one started 14 years ago there was a full time TA in every class plus 1-1 support for any children with an EHCP.
By the time the youngest left 5 years ago there weren't any TAs in the school other than those specifically for particular children with EHCPs.
It was all down to reductions in funding.

Carpvitam

I could be that 1-1...

I have 2 children both Autistic, both with EHCPS, (both 15 hours funded a day) in an afternoon on my own, no support from a teacher or TA...