Primary applications - how do they work?

[InBlue]

Just looking into applying for DD starting Reception in September 2022. London, Greenwich borough. I thought I had a good idea of how it all works, but I can’t get my head around some bits!

• Greenwich uses straight-line distance as an admissions criteria (after social care, siblings etc which doesn’t apply to us). We have two schools in mind - one which is 0.1miles and 5 minutes away, Ofsted rated “Good”, and another which is “Outstanding” and a 15 minute walk away. Outstanding school is second-nearest to us on foot, but by the government website straight-line calculation is joint 4th/5th furthest away (baffling to me, but there you go). I would be more than happy for her to go to the Good school, but if we could pick, we’d probably pick the Outstanding one. But if we put the Outstanding school first, and Good school second, might we

risk not getting either? By making the Good school second choice, are we any less likely to receive an offer there? Or does it make literally no difference?

If it makes literally no difference where you rank the school, then what’s the purpose or significance of ranking them? Can you only appeal your first choice? If we were offered the “Good” school we wouldn’t appeal. However if we were offered a different school that was a 30 min walk away then we probably would appeal - so would we then stand a greater chance of successful appeal if we’d put the “Good” school first as we live so close (0.1m) and it’s less over-subscribed?

• We can put down up to 6 schools. Our top three will be the three schools which are closest walking distance to our flat - the two mentioned above, and another “Good” school also 15min walk. They are 1st, 2nd and joint 4th/5th by straight line criteria.

The six nearest schools are all good schools, but the seventh-furthest-away school is a failing school. Greenwich website says “the more schools you list, the better your chances of being offered a place at one of them” and “include schools nearest to your home address, to avoid being allocated schools further away”. So should we list all six closest schools, to make it less likely to be allocated the 7th, failing school? I wouldn’t really choose some of the schools - e.g. a Catholic school, and they are all actually a 25-30 minute walk away (despite the straight-line distance…) which would be really hard as we both work full-time. But we would prefer she went to any of them than a failing school that’s even further away. So not sure if we should list all six, or just our top three?

Any guidance much appreciated!

The ranking is purely to indicate which school you'd prefer if you were to qualify for more than one school. It isn't used to determine w.hether you qualify for a place.
Put the outstanding one first and the good one second.

The council should have a list of distanced for last allocated place for the previous school year so you can male a decent guess at how likely you are to get in

www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/200286/apply_for_a_school_place/1361/primary_school_offers_interactive_map

It doesn’t matter how you rank them so put your favourite first. They allocate on distance only.

Look at data for last distance offered for each school for the last few years, it will give you an idea of how likely you are to get a place at each one.

Dont really on Ofsted, they could be massively out of date. Visit if you can, look at the website and/or prospectus, look at the school data (progress is more useful than just results). Talk to friends if you can.

(As an aside... no admissions criteria is perfect. Before we moved, the second nearest school to our house involved driving either out in the countryside and back into town, or past four other schools. There was an Army firing range and training area on the straight line route. )

Use your actual preference order down - putting a school as a lower preference does not stop you from getting a place there unless you qualify for a higher-preference school too. So it is fine to put the "good" and closer school lower than the "outstanding" further away school, it won't endanger your chances.

It is mostly irrelevant whether a school is your closest, 2nd closest or 5th closest - it isn't judged according to what other schools might be accessible to you, but where you come in a list of applicants ranked in order of who lives closest to the school. So it's perfectly possible to only qualify for your 4th-nearest school if your 1st 2nd & 3rd nearest are all surrounded by clusters of families who are closer than you.

Make sure that one of the schools on your list is a "banker" - one that you are certain you will qualify for, even if you hate it - because if you fail to qualify for any of the nicer schools you will be assigned to somewhere that no one wants to go, and an awful place nearby is better than an awful place 2 bus rides away.

Thanks so much everyone for your help - really useful!

If the catholic school prioritises Catholic children (assuming you are not), and for the last hundred years has only ever admitted Catholic children/siblings/looked after children, then it’s probably not worth including it in your list, especially if you don’t actually want it.

It makes sense to list the schools you are most likely to be able to get into, but these aren’t always the closest.

I think one of the key things to understand is that you aren't actually making a choice, you are expressing a preference. Unfortunately some people believe that the LEA is obliged to offer a place at one of their "choices" so they try to play the system by either only naming one or two schools, or filling the list with massively over subscribed schools in the mistaken belief that this will force the LEA to give them what they want.
It doesn't work that way. All applications are ranked according to the published criteria and if you qualify for more than one school you will be offered the one highest up your list.
Placing a school higher up your preference list doesn't boost your chance of a place there compated to other people though. For example, if you were placed 31st against the criteria for your first preference in a school who takes 30 pupils, and the person in 30th place had only listed this school as their 3rd preference, they would still be offered the place if they didn't qualify for their first 2 schools. The fact that you had ranked the school higher wouldn't matter. However, if number 30 got offered a space at their second preference, you would move into 30th slot and be offered the place.
If you don't qualify for any of your preferences then the only obligation of the LEA is to offer you a place at the nearest school with space left after the other allocations have been made. Obviously those tend to be less sought after schools and they may not be near your home at all - basically the left overs. So do your best to avoid this at all costs. As a PP said, better a poor school near home than a poor school on the other side of the city.
In a nutshell, research the last few years' admissions so you don't waste all your preferences on schools you have no hope of getting into, put the schools in your honest order of preference, include at least one "banker" even if it's not ideal, and don't try to play games.
Good luck - I hope you get a place you're happy with.

No harm at all in listing extra schools. That will make you more likely to get them in preference to a random other school (eg the 7th closest you list)

Also no disadvantage from putting an unlikely school top. It doesn't harm your chances of getting any other school.

The reason for ranking is so the system knows what you prefer and can definitely allocate you a place and stop thinking about you once you've been ruled out of all the higher preference schools on admissions day.

I think you can usually only appeal places at schools that you ranked higher than the school than you ended up with. (For others, if you wanted them more you should've said so.) You should be able to go on the waiting list for any school, though.

The system genuinely rewards using all your slots and ranking schools in your true order of preference.

After the preferences you've expressed the system is going to have to assume you're equally happy with any other school, so use all your slots.

Previous admission statistics (maximum distance for places allocated on distance alone) will help set expectations but vary from year to year, and have others have said it makes sense if possible to include an acceptable school you're very likely to get in to on distance as a fallback.

The appeals thing varies. In some areas you can only appeal higher preferences than your offered school. In others you can appeal any on your list.

Think of it as if you're making six totally separate applications to six different schools (which you effectively are). Each school will rank your application and inform the LA whether or not it can offer you a place. The LA will only look at your preference order if more than one school can offer you a place. You'll then be offered the highest of the schools that can offer. You will never know which other schools were able to offer you a place - you'll just get one offer. And you can't change your mind later. That's why it's so important to put schools in your true preference order.

Does anyone know what the distance is measured in? My local council hasn't set out whether its ft / m.

Thanks

@kirinm

Does anyone know what the distance is measured in? My local council hasn't set out whether its ft / m.

Thanks

Why does that matter? It makes no difference to the outcome.

It matters when trying to work out how far away my own house is from the school I'm looking at to compare.

You should list them in your genuine order of preference (schools can’t use where you listed them as one of the criteria) and use all your choices - make one of them a ‘banker’ (that you’ll definitely get into to avoid risking the one you don’t want).

@kirinm

Does anyone know what the distance is measured in? My local council hasn't set out whether its ft / m.

Thanks

Which council? It will say somewhere.

@kirinm

It matters when trying to work out how far away my own house is from the school I'm looking at to compare.

You can check the distances by looking at last year’s allocations - it will say how far from the school the furthest allocated place was, and will most likely be in km rather than feet and inches.

Effectively you ‘get’ a place in a list at each of your options. For example if you list 29th for your first choice and they take 30 kids you’ll be offered there. Should you list at 41 they would move to your next choice and unless you have missed every intake option on your list you will be allocated one by the council which has an available space.

It is Lewisham - I can't see a measurement but I'm guessing we are talking metres.

You will get nearest school

@kirinm

It is Lewisham - I can't see a measurement but I'm guessing we are talking metres.

God please ignore me. It says metres at the bottom of what I've just taken a photograph of 🤦🏻‍♀️

@HopelesslyOptimistic

You will get nearest school

That is by no means automatic. It depends on what schools the OP applies for, how many other people apply to those schools and where her child falls in the admission criteria.

As long as they use enough precision, the units won't matter.

Where they measure to and which line they take matters and I think varies, eg straight line letterbox to letterbox.

In terms of knowing what you could've had: if you know your distance to each school that you applied to then when the admission data comes out, at least in our area, you will be able to see whether you were closer than the furthest place allocated on distance alone.

@HopelesslyOptimistic

You will get nearest school

Not necessarily. If it is a small school with only one reception class or a small PAN and you hit a year with a lot of siblings , a couple of families with multiples, and several LAC then places could easily fill up.