Which school would you go for?

[GrumpyOldHorsewoman]

I am in the catchment for a really good primary school whose intake of reception pupils last year was 13. However, I had been considering another primary which feeds to the secondary school I would like DD2 to go to. I had tried to get DD1 into that secondary school when we moved here last year, but they were full and couldn't take her, so now she goes to a school I am not in love with. However the intake for the other primary last year was 28.
So, tiny class (but no guarantee of getting into secondary I want her to go to) vs larger class (but feeds into really good secondary).

Don't know which way to go. I would be happy with the standards generally at either primary school.

which is nearer?

I would go for the larger school, my dd was in a yr of 11 at primary school and it is always a mixed class, ie yr R and yr1 together. In dd's class there was 5 girls, such sadness can happen if there is an odd number of girls.

7 years is a long time and a lot could change in terms of the secondary school entry criteria. I would also triple check the current entry requirements (from your LEA website).

As well as class size I would look at adult:pupil ratio. We have a 3 form entry school near us which is always full, but they invest hugely in TAs as well as having loads of parent helpers so the adult:child ratio is excellent (from what I could see it was around 1:4 to start with going to 1:6 in Yr 3 and then fewer adults in Yrs 5 and 6.

The only issue that I see with small single-year class sizes is the potential for there to be a significant bias in terms of one gender in a particular year. I guess the other consideration is whether the classes would end up merged eg so next year it would be a reception/Yr 1 class.

They are both roughly the same distance from my house.
DD1 attended a primary in Dubai where there were 8 pupils in her class. She really thrived, and therefore I wasn't really considering the negatives of smaller class sizes, but I should have done.
I don't know how much difference it makes, but one school is Catholic (as are we) and the other CofE. I am lapsed and fairly non-religious, but I know it is important to DH and also to our families who are very involved with the church. Whilst a secular school would be fine in my eyes, sending a catholic child to a CofE school was something that none of my parents' friends/family would have considered. Considering DH is Irish, and my own family half Irish it could almost be like sending a jewish child to a muslim school. MIL was beside herself last year when DD2 attended an Easter parade at a Cof E church. Sometimes things can be a bit sensitive for others. I am about as sensitive as a brick, but I don't want to upset anyone either.

I agree with LM. Schools can change vastly over a few years and it might mean that by the time she reaches Y7, the school you currently like is unrecognisable from how it is now.

Have you also thought about the logistics of getting your daughters to schools further apart?

Don't just go on class sizes. Check out how these classes are managed.

Also catchment areas can often change so unless you're sure that the other primary will always remain a feeder to the secondaty you like, send her to your local one. Is your elder daughter on the waiting list for your preferred choice?

If all else is equal, and you are lapsed, then I think that the thing to consider about the catholic school is that it will give dd2 an insight into her "background". That said Catholic schools can apparently be quite hard work for mothers (who have to be constantly baking and at assemblies/mass so worth considering if that could be an issue for you). For example at some schools it would stick out if you were say the only working mother. Obviously not an issue at many schools, but worth exploring the cultures of each school.

Which one is which?

My DDs are 9 years apart, so there is no problem about the logistics of getting to school. Both schools are of equal reputation and I have heard good things about both. However, the secondary schools are worlds apart. DD1 attends the local comp which is vast and has done little to impress me thus far (quite the contrary, most of the time) but she is happy there and seems to being doing well personally, which in itself is an achievement. DD2 is a totally different character. I think she may benefit from a more academic environment than DD1 would have done. It has made choosing a school for her much more complicated than it ever was for DD1. I am by no means a pushy, hot housing type of a parent, but I can see that her requirements are going to be much different. She likes to be mentally challenged and gets bored if things aren't challenging enough, but rapt if they are. (Total opposite of DD1)

LM, I haven't experienced that in any of the Catholic schools I attended or have taught in. That may be in case in a small minority of cases but IME most Catholic mothers are working too and not baking.

I think that you are inclined to go with the school that feeds into the better secondary school, and I would tend to side with you on that. Although a lot can change in 7 years, it is also true that 7 years can fly by and a good school may well stay oversubscribed.

If both primaries have a similar reputation, then you don't lose out, by going with your instinct, do you?

I have to say in response to LM that the catholic school DD1 attended was very hands-on for the parents. But I put that down to the fact that it was in Suffolk and attended by a large number of American military families, and the American influence tends to be of greater parental involvement.

The school with the small intake is CofE, the one attached to the preferable secondary school is catholic.

Well a Catholic secondary school will still be a Catholic secondary school and there probably won't be too many CofE-ers there. If you are lapsed then your best bet would be to go to the Catholic primary school:- at least your dd2 will have received the appropriate level of familiarisation with mass etc by the time you look for secondary schools. If you opt for the CofE, and don't take mass regularly, then I imagine you would be quite a long way down the criteria list.

And yes, obviously all these statements are generalisations, as we don't know the schools concerned - my previous comment re cake baking is actually based on a number of threads on here where parents have vented, only to get the message - "what did you expect when you sent them to a Catholic school".

My kids both went/go to a catholic primary, and I have never been asked to bake anything. Also, 90% of us mums work. I never go to mass, I am not Catholic myself (even though dp, dd, ds are) but I mainly don't go as if I did then ds would want to come home. Personally I would go to the larger school regardless of what religion it is. My biggest regret was sending my kids to a small school.

Are you sure that 13 FS2 children are taught in just one class - ie not a mixed class with year 1, making a total of, say, 26 in the class?

I would be very surprised to see a state primary that could afford to have one teacher and a TA for just 13 children (unfortunately).

(Sorry if you have already researched this).

I also agree re the possible problems of small classes. Actually in our school with classes of 25-28, we have some with very few girls (like, 7) so imagine that reduced to a cohort of 13!