School budget

[Fangsalot89]

Does anyone know if you can request to see a breakdown of the school budget by department? It’s a particular dept I’m actually interested in.
The school website doesn’t show this and I wasn’t sure if it’s something that’s well out of bounds for a parent to ask to see.
It’s a CofE state school rather than private.
Thanks

@Cerebelle Interesting thank you.

Do you want think something like stopwatches for example would be classed as such? Not to be used in school but to take home?

Possibly yes, because one of the intents of theSports Premium is to encourage the uptake of sports outside as well as inside school. So if the "stopwatches" encourage the children to say take up cross country running or time themselves swimming lengths at the local pool, then it is encouraging uptake.

although personally I think the head has purchased a set of polo ponies to graze on the football field🐴

[quote Fangsalot89]@CallmeHendricks That’s fine and you are entitled to contribute that to the conversation. I think a parent has the right to ask why a school has spent the PE budget on an incessant expense which hasn’t come from a grant and yet insists on twisting the arm of parents to buy the essentials because they have no money. It’s not a jobs worth/Karen-esq request for clarification on that instance[/quote]
The issue, if that is what you query is related, with PE Premium is that schools get a large lump sum, £16,000 annually plus £10 for each child, except reception, which is ringfenced. Initially this was very exciting but a number of years on, £16,000 is a huge sum to spend annually on PE related expenditure, especially in small schools. We have carried forward unspent funds from a previous year- due to covid, and are really struggling to spend it, there is only so much equipment you can buy and playground markings, trim trails etc do not need replacing that quickly. Especially when what we really need is more basic resources and new furniture😤.

I bet it's Fitbit type things....

The pe/sports premium spend should be reported in detail, with evidence of impact on the website.

And should be sustainable...

All our children were given a pedometer to take home through some sport incentive in school. No cost to the school.

Polo ponies and clay pigeon shooting equipment 🤣

@PseudoBadger

I bet it's Fitbit type things....

I agree, and if so I think it's a great use for some of the funding.

The PE premium is a bone of contention in many schools. There are so many better uses for the money, but as it's ringfenced spending it on other more urgent areas like repairs, new computers, resources, books, furtniture ect just isn't allowed.

@Whinge it’s not the Fitbit things which would be a good use of money

@Iggly

If you’re concerned then go to the governors. There should be a parent governor. That’s what they’re there for.

It’s not what Parent Governors are there for. They’re not a middle person. The options are: Speak to Headteacher; Follow Complaints or Whistleblowing Policy- complaints start with the Headteacher anyway.

It sounds like OP holds more issues than the one this refers to.

As I said before, best to see the response from the Headteacher. They’ll know the facts of the situation. If response then is not to satisfaction, raise through policy.

It’s not about liaising. If you have a query or a concern then there is a process to follow. These are published. Speak to the headteacher. Then if response not to your satisfaction follow the appropriate policy.

Maybe parents subbing the school’s budget ( I do not agree with this at all BTW), has freed up budget for other purchases? Maybe a grant? Maybe sponsorship? If you don’t ask the Headteacher, you might not get to know.

I think that the more legitimate complaint is about the constant asking for money. That is reasonable for parents to complain about as it directly affects them.

The details of how the budget is spent less so. It isn't really the business of parents or indeed the PTA. The budget is signed off by governors and by the LA (if a maintained school) so checks and balances already exist. I don't think it is for a parent to question the head in detail about an individual spend and when I was CoG I would have supported the head in declining to answer if the request was framed in an antagonistic way or from a known troublemaker because having to justify decisions to individual parents undermines the head's autonomy and wastes their time. At a best case scenario they might get a bland non- commital response along the lines of 'I can assure you that all spending is overseen by our finance committee who have deemed this appropriate'

So if you want to know if you would be 'that parent' for asking this then yes you definitely would. If you started putting in FOI requests that would be a short road to major unpopularity.

There is a fine line. A head should listen to parental views but they cannot be wholly governed by voices of individual parents who may not speak for the whole community and they should not have to justify all their decisions to a fine level as they just would not be able to run the school if they were constantly beholden to people's opinions. They aren't voted for like politicians. They are professionals
employed to do a job and they are ultimately answerable to the governing board.

Anyway I think you have actually realised that your original question was a bit OTT and are probably not going to do this after all and we shall all be left wondering what mystery item was so offensive....

@CovoidOfAllHumanity I don’t think my original question was OTT. If I was aware of the protocols and still felt inclined to continue down that path then fair enough but not knowing what is acceptable/not acceptable as a parent and asking so is hardly over the top.
To be honest with you, I wasn’t the one who initially said about FOI etc and that’s never been something I’ve been interested in doing because it sounds like more work than is really necessary but a quick request for a breakdown was my limit.

We recently found out via records that our school had spent £3,000 out of £17,000 annual p.e budget on Moki watches that were used for maximum of a month then lost/left at home/forgotten about by all teachers - they literally never mention them anymore.
So yes sometimes it is important to find out what money is being spent on. Our head teacher is always asking for money - recently the PTA had to spend money on staff training as the headteacher asked as there is no budget for it. I think it is good to be aware of what is going on in your school's finances.

In which case you should volunteer as a governor and then you will have all the rights in the world to see the finances and question them.

It is literally one of the core functions of a school governing body to monitor the budget effectiveness. Random parents really do not need to be doing that. It is usurping the function of governors if they do. The head would not be able to function in their role if they had to be answerable to every single parent who had a question about an item of expenditure or a performance rating. That is why governors exist to do that role on behalf of parents and children.

With the watches I guess people can make mistakes and it seems as though the watch spend was one of those. They thought it would have an impact but it didn't. As long as the mistake was not repeated then I guess we have to accept that sometimes things that seem a great idea turn out not to be.

It does seem arse over tit a bit in that the watches are the kind of thing the PTA should perhaps pay for and the training should of course be from the school budget but it's probably what someone said upthread about the ring fenced sports premium that has to be spent on sporting development and nothing else. I am surprised the PTA agreed to fund staff training. Ours I think would want to fund things that they can see more directly benefit children

@CovoidOfAllHumanity I think volunteering for PTA is enough involvement from me for the moment.
@Hoopa The expenditure was very similar to ours. Frustrating to say the least.

PTA didn't want to fund staff payment, we wanted to fund lovely extra curricular things or books. Increasingly we are being asked to fund iPads, staff training and local council resources - not our remit. In the governors minutes which I read the head repeatedly asks governors when the parents are going to be asked to donate money directly to school! They did end up asking once and nobody gave a bean - the head is unpopular and many children are being pulled out mid way through the primary to go to other local schools, it feels like a sinking ship. Governors are (understandably?) reluctant to do much, she is a good headteacher on paper and strong on health and safety but has culled the joy from the school and parents are voting (strongly) with their feet. We have gone from 7 classes two years ago, to 6 and now next year to 5 and the most popular teacher has just been made redundant as they have lost money due to children being pulled out, which has sent another shockwave around the parent body.
So sometimes, like in this instance, a governing body is not actually working in the interest of the parents - majority of parents that I talk to would like a fresh start and a headteacher who makes parents want to take up places in the school, not one who is making parents pull their children out.
The p.e is very uninspiring, so I would have spent that £3000 on some specialist staff to come and do some fun p.e, or some long term equipment. Not f***g Moki's that are lying in a cupboard somewhere.
My child is happy however and I think you never move a happy child unless you really need to.

@Hoopa This sounds very similar to the school in question.
The head is incredibly unpopular with those that take more than a fleeting look into things and on a regular basis issues arise that in truth make little to no sense.
Parents don’t seem to like being asked to fund the basics and then have extras bought instead but in all honesty, the entire education system is fucked up so not a lot does make sense these days

Op I hope you find out, I'm also intrigued!
Of course there is nothing wrong with you asking, I'm also intrigued as to school budgets!
Apparently ours is doing really well, but is that because they don't support or encourage ehcp applications and surpress dc having Ed psych tests ect?

Hoopa and op, same, our governers are best pals with the head!
It's all hand in glove and the head is deeply deeply unpopular.

Lemonmelonsun

Ours is doing really badly as we have loads of out of catchment ehcps, we are an inclusive school that lives it's ethos, sometimes to our detriment.