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B for effort

23 replies

AlsoHereInYellow · 10/07/2021 15:25

Ds got his year 5 report. He is high achieving in maths and always has been. According to the report he is 'working beyond' in all aspects of maths.We know he's got a knack for it. He says the work given is very boring. He always does more than the minimum that's expected during a lesson but doesn't do all the work that has been set by the teacher, e.g. 4 pages of number crunching, 1 page per lesson is minimum, ds will do 1.5. -2 pages at least, sometime more. I asked him why does he not do all 4 pages? He says because it's very boring and doesn't challenge him, apparently it's all the same, page 1 and 4 are the same in terms of difficulty and learning new things.

How do I get him to aim for effort grade A next year?

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MrsFin · 10/07/2021 15:26

You talk to the c school and and get them to arrange stretch lessons for him

AlsoHereInYellow · 10/07/2021 15:39

That you @MrsFinMrs Fin. The school have 3 intakes per year and he is already in the 'higher' maths class.

OP posts:
AlsoHereInYellow · 10/07/2021 15:39

*Thank!

OP posts:
MrsFin · 10/07/2021 15:47

@AlsoHereInYellow

That you *@MrsFinMrs* Fin. The school have 3 intakes per year and he is already in the 'higher' maths class.
Then I'd say they need to stretch him more. Or ask for him to be taken out of maths class altogether and get him a tutor?

My DD was the same with reading. Refused to read the books she was given in school so got crap grades, but was happily reading Harry Potter and other books from age 7/8. Her teacher said she might be reading the words, but wouldn't understand what she was reading 🤷‍♀️

MrPickles73 · 11/07/2021 10:42

We had this same problem with maths and moved school after a year and a half of requesting more challenging work and nothing happening. DD was top of her class with her friend. At first friend's parents ignored the issue but finally woke up, asked for harder work and now she is also moving schools.

MrPickles73 · 11/07/2021 10:44

We also suggested half a day of week of home tutoring so the child could be more challenged and the school wouldn't allow this on the grounds of being disruptive Confused. No thought to maths lessons being a waste of time then...

Lonecatwithkitten · 11/07/2021 12:34

Also reward for effort, reserve your praise on the report card for where he is getting good grades for effort. Long term this will serve him well.

WouldBeGood · 11/07/2021 12:37

I agree with him, why would you do four pages of dull stuff that’s not required? 🤷🏻‍♀️

NuffSaidSam · 11/07/2021 12:39

I agree you have to talk to the school about making the work more challenging.

You want him to put effort in and work hard, but you also want that effort to be well placed and useful. There is no value in putting huge amounts of effort into something that doesn't need it. That's inefficient. He's right to only do a couple of pages of maths that's too easy! It's a waste of his time to do four pages of maths that doesn't challenge him.

WallaceinAnderland · 11/07/2021 12:51

How do I get him to aim for effort grade A next year?

Why do you want him to aim for A for effort anyway? It makes no material difference.

Pythonesque · 11/07/2021 13:33

This is a really tricky one. In my opinion, at this age there is definitely value in being able to quickly and accurately solve a large number of arithmetic problems. It sets the able student up for real facility with numbers when they move on to more complex and interesting mathematics.

So I'd perhaps reframe it as about how much is enough to obtain that facility. As well as how to make sure your son is getting something to stretch and engage him in maths.

To your son - ask him, does he get every single question right every time, or does he make silly mistakes on the two pages he completes? Challenge him to be neat and accurate, and if he's not then suggest he does need more practice. Then look at websites like nrich and the junior maths challenge (and there are plenty of others) for problems to engage him for longer. Seriously consider finding problems he can take into school and work on WHEN he's done his worksheets.

To his teachers - discuss the problem of a child becoming disengaged because they aren't being given work that requires real effort to do. Going into year 6 I guess there may be issues around how sats preparation is done - so a very important conversation to have, possibly in September; ideally he is doing enough basic practice to be fast and accurate but with the knowledge that he can then turn to more interesting work. Ask how you can help support the school in keeping him working AND LEARNING!

Good luck finding the right path forward and I hope he has a thoughtful teacher next year.

(When I was his age we had "mechanical maths" workbooks and I worked through them and then went on (and later did competition maths and a degree), my equally able sister felt it was rubbish and did far less. She still did very well in maths through highschool but had to find some extra speed eventually. Similarly with my own children, now having done/doing A level maths/FM, I'm not convinced they wouldn't have benefited from a slightly greater volume of arithmetic and algebra practice when they were younger).

Pythonesque · 11/07/2021 13:36

@WallaceinAnderland

How do I get him to aim for effort grade A next year?

Why do you want him to aim for A for effort anyway? It makes no material difference.

An able child may achieve good grades regardless of the effort they put in. Sooner or later they no longer know how to put the effort in, they have learnt NOT to work. Effort grades, if realistically assessed, are a far better marker of whether your child is working well in school than their achievement grades.
MargaretThursday · 11/07/2021 14:37

I used to get A for attainment in a couple of subjects (including maths) and B for effort.
Thing was I enjoyed the subject but didn't need to work hard. The issue sometimes was that I distracted others who couldn't afford to, however the teachers acknowledged that actually I was going to achieve in those anyway (was unlikely I wouldn't get 100% in GCSE maths) so I was better putting my effort into other subjects.

I think in your dc's case it depends whether he is putting same effort into them all or whether he isn't doing the full effort in maths but he is in subjects he needs to.

HopeValley · 12/07/2021 11:14

Firstly I'd talk to the school and find out if it really is 4 pages of number crunching. Not good if so, but most teachers would be criticised for that in work scrutinies so worth checking. I've only ever taught 1 child who I have genuinely found difficult to challenge in maths (although I think I managed!) and they were truly exceptional. However I've taught several clever children who put in about 80% effort and perhaps weren't quite as outstanding as their parents believed. I think it's easy as a parent to say the work is too easy and that's why they're not working hard when in fact sometimes a bit more effort is actually required. That's more in relation to the flavour of some PPs than you though OP, I think it's great you want to help him strive to work a bit harder. Maybe speak to his new teacher in September after a few weeks and see what they think. It may also just be the teacher being a little harsh on reports - saving an A for those who are super keen!

FoxgloveSummers · 12/07/2021 11:22

I found an old report of mine last year, I’d forgotten I was given quite crap marks for effort in some subjects. Tbh it reflected a lot more on how much the teachers disliked me (just a couple of them) and I went on to do better in the class than anyone else. I was trying, I honestly just think they marked me down because I sometimes questioned them rather than just shutting up. Maybe I was a right pain in the arse, although I don’t think so, but it was noticeable that most teachers thought I tried really hard.

honkytonkheroe · 13/07/2021 22:52

I don’t know why he would need an A for effort. I regularly got C For effort and A for attainment. My view was, that if my attainment was A, why would I work harder?

CassandraTrotter · 13/07/2021 23:01

An able child may achieve good grades regardless of the effort they put in. Sooner or later they no longer know how to put the effort in, they have learnt NOT to work. Effort grades, if realistically assessed, are a far better marker of whether your child is working well in school than their achievement grades.
This is very true. Ive seen this happen, especially with boys, in year 11. They never learned how to work hard, and then they give up when they reach a point they do need to put in a lot of effort.

Doing four pages of similar questions could well be more about testing for accuracy in the specific time given.

Rainallnight · 13/07/2021 23:09

I’m with @honkytonkheroe on this one. A bit different but I was very, very good at French in secondary schools, without particularly trying. The teacher complained to my mother that I didn’t try hard enough and didn’t do more stretching work.

My position (and this was in secondary school so a bit different) was that I had to do well in all my subjects so I would use that extra effort and work on the subjects I struggled more with, like maths or chemistry. It was just a strategic decision.

SCMocha · 14/07/2021 09:27

Sometimes being bored with maths questions is good, as it teaches you to find patterns, shortcuts, etc.

I remember learning column multiplication, and when the numbers had zeroes in, we were still taught to lay it out as usual, which might have mean a whole row of zeroes in the second line, for example, which then made no difference when you added up the rows at the end. And I realised that you could just skip that step, as long as you remembered to put the right number of place holder zeroes in the next line. Or when there are two digits the same in column multiplication, what it does to the number patterns, etc. Or other somewhat more insightful shortcuts, that you develop after doing dozens of problems that can seem the same. So there are some definite benefits to having to continue something that is boring.

It's also useful to be able to do something long and boring but maintain attention enough to get it perfect - often children who are mathematically capable start to lose focus after a few questions and get things wrong on exams that they could otherwise do, because they've not practiced the stamina to keep going and keep being accurate even when a bit tired.

Developing speed is excellent, as is developing a pride in a page of neatly written, mostly-all-correct answers (Depending on the child, encouraging perfection might not be helpful - I know that as an unchallenged child, I challenged myself by trying to be perfect, which then led to some very unhelpful traits developing! But aiming for perfection whilst accepting small mistakes is beneficial).

And then also getting them challenged with some puzzles and enrichment activities. And making sure that they aren't distracting others, or acting like the work is beneath them, etc., as those might also contribute to the 'effort' grade, if it actually encompasses things like attitude and behaviour as well.

DelurkingAJ · 14/07/2021 22:43

I would also check if this has been an unusual year. So we had a conversation with DS1’s teacher about stretching him in maths and acknowledged that she does give him extensions but he can do them. She said she was horribly aware but in a non-COBID year they’d have extracted him and a handful of others across his year to do group extension work but that wasn’t possible because of bubbles. It gave us confidence that all being well they’ll push him more next year.

cansu · 15/07/2021 20:42

You take what he is telling you with a pinch of salt. Maybe he needs to do the practice. Maybe the work is appropriate and his perception or judgement of what he should be doing is slightly flawed??

Personally, I would be telling him B is good, maybe you need to finish the work set by the teacher to get an A. Maybe you need to complete everything before the teacher will give you an extra challenge to complete.

fairy99 · 18/07/2021 17:02

@cansu

You take what he is telling you with a pinch of salt. Maybe he needs to do the practice. Maybe the work is appropriate and his perception or judgement of what he should be doing is slightly flawed??

Personally, I would be telling him B is good, maybe you need to finish the work set by the teacher to get an A. Maybe you need to complete everything before the teacher will give you an extra challenge to complete.

Completely agree with cansu.Actually, this view might not win me many friends, but I find that the children who have a deeper understanding in Maths tend to enjoy completing everything they get. They don't find the simpler work boring as they can do it so quickly and sometimes see it as a hoop to jump through-they've shown they can do the initial work accurately and can then access the extension work.
TheWashingMachine · 18/07/2021 17:19

Is he in a state school or private school? Does he have Atom learning?

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