Teacher and 1:1 TA only

[Jimjiminyjimjiminy]

Hi,

My DS is due to start reception in September. There are approx 25 children in the class. They’ve always had a TA for the class but the teacher has said this year the TA is a 1:1 for a particular child and not for the rest of the class. I’m a bit concerned about this as one of the other children is definitely more than a handful and I was hoping the TA might be able to keep an eye on that DC a bit. Is this normal?? I feel like the TA is going to end up dealing with the other kids too and then the little girl doesn’t get her 1:1.

[quote Jimjiminyjimjiminy]@GoFishFingers

That set up sounds ideal. I imagine it would be positive for your child to also spend time with the other staff and not just ‘her’ TA. I share your concerns for the child in this school though as I can’t see how you could truly remain 1:1 without another TA.[/quote]
I have to say it's quite hard to get an EHCP in place for reception, let alone a full time 121 so I imagine this child's parents are 'on it' and won't let their child suffer - just as I wouldn't. So I'd say don't worry about that side of things but not having an extra pair of hands in reception seems like madness.

If the child's EHCP is specified and quantified and the child doesn't receive 1:1 their parents can enforce the provision, via Judicial Review if necessary.

Very few schools round us have any class TAs now. The only additional adults (not in every clas, by their very nature) are 1-1 TAs. EXCEPT Reception. I would say that was more unusual, as Reception does have particular demands. But then most schools round us also have 25-30 in a class.

I started teaching when TAs had not been dreamed of (1980s), and was mostly alone in my room with 32-35 kids. However, there was an army of 'mum helpers' ( I did also have one dad, but that was the usual term) I could call on if I wanted more adults for particular activities. The days of casual help in the clasroom like that are a very distant memory now.

Also, there was more Special School provision then. Children who are now included in mainstream could go instead to MLD schools - Medium (as opposed to Severe) Learning Difficulties. That certainly lessened the challenge in the mainstream classrooms.

Thirdly, there was no National Curriculum then, and little robust accountability for all pupils making progress. Victoria Wood's description of (paraphrasing from memory) 'We didn't have special needs; you sat at the back with raffia' was very true in many cases. I would like to stress that I was not that kind of teachr, but we did have more freedom to design a curriculum to suit the perceived needs of each child.

Thanks all. Looks like it’s less than idea, but probably all above board so nothing I can do about it apart from keep fingers crossed!

Wow, this really surprises me!
My daughter is just coming towards the end of reception now. There are two classes in her year both with approx 30 children and each class has a teacher and 3 TA's. I know one of the TA's in her class is a 1-2-1 and pretty certain one in the other class is too.
I thought this level was more normal for reception, how on earth is a teacher alone supposed to supervise children both inside and outside at the same time?
Not sure how many there will be in Year 1 though.

a teacher and 3 TAs per class! Is that a private school?

@YoungestSpinster
In a school that has less than 40 in a year, but more than 60 across 2 years, the other choice that could exist is making a composite class. That brings different challenges of course but I suspect also some advantages depending on the particular cohort. Your school has presumably considered this route and decided the advantages of separate year groups outweight the difficulties of large class sizes.

Models I've heard of include 2 single year classes and one composite (which could be the brighter children from both year groups, or those most in need of a smaller class, or various other choices), with some lesson specific rearrangements especially in upper primary; or making all 3 classes composite for consistency.

My DCs School has a TA in every class, plus 1-2-1s, so most classes have 3 adults in each classroom most of the time. It's a single form entry state primary.

There seem to be quite wide discrepancies in TA provision between schools in the state sector, which seems surprising given that the funding per pupil is pretty similar.

@FurryGiraffe

This is what I thought was standard but this thread has opened my eyes.

@Jimjiminyjimjiminy

a teacher and 3 TAs per class! Is that a private school?

Nope, just a normal state school! Really it's only 2 TA's as one of the three is a 1-2-1.

@Heckythump1

Can we borrow one

Our school has 1 ta per class. However it's true there seem to be zero 1-2-1 tas so largely undiagnosed sen. And in reality a few specific dc probably do need and get most of the attention.
They do seem to do adjustments for kids too like allowing them to be dropped off earlier or a sensory room etc.
Even the kid who repeated yr r then went to a SS didnt have a 1-2-1.
But i dont think the health visitors etc are very good here so several people had concerns with toddlers but no issues looked into until school age.
I myself raised issues with dc1 to the school nursing team but no help at all. The school too were not good.

Re the challenging child. The school will likely be stricter than nursery so it might stop if the child is sent to the HT (never worked for dc1), or they might progress to being excluded. They might grow out of it. Or have some SEN.
A kid here who had issues at nursery then in reception, then was referred said to have no SEN is now re-referred and lookinh at asd/adhd diagnosis. However at 9 they already have friend issues.
Of the 4 kids who stood out in yr r as having behavioural issues, they did all improve. But they still are not quite what their classmates are.

Also it's worth bearing in mind that sometimes the hitter is impulsive but the child being hit is say
Teasing them constantly
Excluding them
Taking toys away themselves

Dc1 is like that and there are no excuses but even since yr r it has been the one boy who does annoying things so luckily they are generally kept apart. In some ways our school need to do more to stop verbal teasing/bullying.
As you are saying op i do feel young kids need supervision and incidents of hitting are much more likely when adults arent looking. (Because the teasers dont do it and the hitter may also thing twice).

Also deslite out teacher plus ta the school rarely read with each child. Especially the teacher. Maybe once a term.
So in general some kids do find year 1 easier as the other kids behaviour is better.

@HSHorror

Our school has 1 ta per class. However it's true there seem to be zero 1-2-1 tas so largely undiagnosed sen. And in reality a few specific dc probably do need and get most of the attention. They do seem to do adjustments for kids too like allowing them to be dropped off earlier or a sensory room etc. Even the kid who repeated yr r then went to a SS didnt have a 1-2-1. But i dont think the health visitors etc are very good here so several people had concerns with toddlers but no issues looked into until school age. I myself raised issues with dc1 to the school nursing team but no help at all. The school too were not good.

Re the challenging child. The school will likely be stricter than nursery so it might stop if the child is sent to the HT (never worked for dc1), or they might progress to being excluded. They might grow out of it. Or have some SEN.
A kid here who had issues at nursery then in reception, then was referred said to have no SEN is now re-referred and lookinh at asd/adhd diagnosis. However at 9 they already have friend issues.
Of the 4 kids who stood out in yr r as having behavioural issues, they did all improve. But they still are not quite what their classmates are.

Also it's worth bearing in mind that sometimes the hitter is impulsive but the child being hit is say
Teasing them constantly
Excluding them
Taking toys away themselves

Dc1 is like that and there are no excuses but even since yr r it has been the one boy who does annoying things so luckily they are generally kept apart. In some ways our school need to do more to stop verbal teasing/bullying.
As you are saying op i do feel young kids need supervision and incidents of hitting are much more likely when adults arent looking. (Because the teasers dont do it and the hitter may also thing twice).

Also deslite out teacher plus ta the school rarely read with each child. Especially the teacher. Maybe once a term.
So in general some kids do find year 1 easier as the other kids behaviour is better.

This is my experience, the reading bit.

Since returning in March from lockdown DD has read once to the teacher, that's it. I'm reading with her at home but I'm not a teacher so it's impossible to know if she's reading at the right level.

In most schools the only way to get 1-1 is to fight the local authority to get a very clear EHCP. Ds has one and it states “25 hours 1-1 teaching assistant per week” (it has separate to cover dinner) so their is no room for flexibility or other interpretations, many plans will say “a high level of support” which isn’t worth the paper it’s written on!

[quote Pythonesque]@YoungestSpinster
In a school that has less than 40 in a year, but more than 60 across 2 years, the other choice that could exist is making a composite class. That brings different challenges of course but I suspect also some advantages depending on the particular cohort. Your school has presumably considered this route and decided the advantages of separate year groups outweight the difficulties of large class sizes.

Models I've heard of include 2 single year classes and one composite (which could be the brighter children from both year groups, or those most in need of a smaller class, or various other choices), with some lesson specific rearrangements especially in upper primary; or making all 3 classes composite for consistency.[/quote]
Yeah PAN is 60, but they have anything between 40 and 55 starting in Reception and by year 3 they lose a lot of children to the local prep so end up with either 2 very small classes per year or 1 big one. Headteacher doesn't like composite classes apparently so will only do that if she doesn't have enough to make up a full year groups class.

Personally I'd prefer composite classes, but I can see the difficulty for the teacher teaching 2 year groups in one class. I know of another local school that has 3 or 4 year groups in one class which must be a nightmare, their PAN is only 10 though in Reception. They tend to run year 6 as their own class though.

Gosh reading with the teacher once a term . How are they meant to accurately assess progress?

@Sirzy

How does it work in real life? Say a child has a 1:1 TA on 3 days a week then how do they manage on the other 2 days?

It depends on how it is used really, but in most cases it would be split over the day for particular areas rather than 3 full days and 2 with nothing. So a TA may spend half an hour a day doing 1-1 phonics with the child, they may support them in every maths lessons but then that’s it because the hours are used.

I do find it a bit strange when people say 'i taught in the 80s/90s with no ta and 35 kids and was fine' because the education system looks so different these days. Not just because all the curriculum requirements for each year group got shifted down a year! So what you used to have to get kids to achieve by end of year 2 now needs to happen by end of year 1. When I have my performance meetings the main questions are always 'why is each child not meeting expectations or above? What more should you be doing to make sure no child works below year group expectations? Losing battle really... and I'm losing my ta next year too because of budgets

How does it work in real life? Say a child has a 1:1 TA on 3 days a week then how do they manage on the other 2 days?

Many children with 1:1 support don’t need help and supervision all day everyday. Sometimes it’s useful to have 1:1 for certain activities and interventions but opportunities to develop independence and coping alone is also important. Some 1:1 are only 15hrs per week.

@Jet888

Sorry you’re losing your TA too. I honestly don’t know how teachers manage all those 4/5 year olds on their own. Honestly I have 2 children and I’m pretty tired by the end of the day and I’m not assessing them etc. There’s such a huge variety of abilities at that age too. How often do you get to read with them?

I teach 6/7 year olds so year 2. I have 3 kids i read with every day who are my ones who find reading most challenging. Then I read with about 3- 4 others each day. So they get to read with me about every week and a half/ two weeks? The best readers and comprehended might get heard less often so I can hear some others read twice in that time. Parents have to sign reading records at our school to show they've read with kids so I try and pick up the kids more whose parents I know don't . most school I know do parent workshops on how to support your child with things like reading and phonics in reception (well, they did pre covid at least!)

Our school has a TA per class and then LSAs on top for 1-1 support funded by the EHCP for the kid that needs the 1-1

@Jet888

A lot more than once a term then. Crazy how everything is so variable!

Dd has moved from a school with 2 ta's per infant class to one. The quality of learning and amount that she is heard read is far better in the new school. The new school just organise themselves so much better and get the children to be more independent which is also a good skill eg swapping their own books