Can I support DS through the 11+ without tutoring?

[GoFishFingers]

Buckinghamshire. No good non-grammars nearby.

DS is 8, coming to the end of Year 3. He is fairly bright, I am academically confident and we have a good relationship/he is willing to listen to me etc.

I just HATE the grammar system and feel terrible about the idea of tutoring. I know it doesn't make sense. DH feels strongly that we need to let DS go to grammar and having looked at some local non-grammars I have to agree but I hate it. I would feel better if he was just studying with me instead.

For a while now I've been doing half an hour a week of maths tuition with him - he is ahead in maths and finding the class work boring so we do a bit at home to keep him interested. A while ago I bought a book ' CGP GL assessments 10 minute test for Maths ' it's for ages 9-10 and i find it interesting - DS has no problem with the majority of the question, say 8 out of 10 though I still discuss his answers with him, talk about ways to double check, ways to work faster and sometimes extend the question to check his understanding. Then 2 times out of 10 he has just never covered that topic yet and sometimes I introduce it and sometimes we just skip it - depends on what else is going on.

Basically I feel it works really well and I'm thinking to just buy similar books for English, VR and NVR and tutor him myself at home.

Anyone done this? Am I fooling myself that this will work? We can afford a tutor so tell me straight...

So long as he is a naturally bright boy, is familiar with the types of questions (especially the VR and NVR), can work quickly (timing is so important) and knows exam technique then there is absolutely no need to tutor other than what you are currently doing.

My DD sat it in 2019 and I am staunchly anti tutoring. She passed with flying colours after doing pretty much what you suggest. And we had none of the stress or hours glued to the books that some of her friends did.

My best advice - ask his current school if they think he is grammar material. Before they sit the exam they give them a “rating” of suitability for grammar. You need these ratings to support any selection review or appeals if he doesn’t pass. If the school don’t think he’s suitable and rank him as such then it might be worth looking at other options. Many a parent set their sights on a grammar school and tutor their children to breaking point. If they are then lucky enough to scrape in they have to be tutored throughout the rest of their school career to keep up.

You do need to be brave though as EVERYONE tutors. I almost caved and jumped on the bandwagon but so glad I didn’t. It restored my faith in the system that a bright child can pass without all the ridiculous levels of tutoring.

Thanks @Zodlebud that's all really useful!

I bought a past paper pack and have looked at all the different types of questions with him, he can't do them all (he is only 8) but he is able to do some of each type - he has great instinct for the NVR ones and sometimes gets them before I do! Timing will definitely be a thing to think about.

His bestie is starting tutoring in the autumn, which is what made me really start thinking about it, but I don't want that for him. If we are doing it at home I can skip questions in easily as well - I often slide one in at dinner time or when out for a walk etc so that it doesn't feel like a chore.

His school is brand new and has their first year 6 cohort next year (currently only has upto year 5) so they don't have much 11+ experience but I will talk to his teachers anyway. I completely agree that if he is heavily pushed and tutored to get to grammar then he is in for a miserable time - he loves school now and I wouldn't want that for him. If he doesn't look likely to pass we will consider other options such as moving or maybe even private.

He is still very young. We didn’t start until Year 5. The CGP books are very good at teaching how to answer each question type and are a good starting point. Once you’ve done those then 10 minute tests and in the summer hols a couple of full papers.

To be honest, in the situation you describe, I don't think there's much difference either practically or 'morally' between paid-for tutoring and you helping him at home. I totally get why the former feels more 'wrong', as your child is at an advantage because of your relative wealth - but if you're helping him prepare at home then he's still at an advantage, it's just that he's benefitting from something slightly different (your educational background and the fact that you have the right home environment and the time available to help him - which is very often linked to income anyway). I'm not saying that in any way to make you feel bad - rather the opposite, to say that if you do go down the private tutoring route then you're probably not giving him any advantage that you wouldn't already be giving him at home. It's just a matter of outsourcing. We did tutor privately, purely because it was easier to have a fixed session each week with official 'homework'. But we absolutely could have done it ourselves (degree level educated parents, one a teacher), and we did consider stopping the sessions after a few months to save ourselves the money, but by then DS was in the swing of it and quite enjoyed the sessions (better biscuits than at home...), so we carried on.

I agree that it's a totally different matter when it comes to intensively tutoring a child who is not really working at the right level and is unlikely to enjoy grammar school if they do pass. I also agree that it's quite early to be starting yet - there's a danger that the child loses their enthusiasm for the work. We started at the beginning of Year 5 and that was plenty. For now, I'd be focusing more on reading, puzzles, games and fun maths rather than CGP books etc. Just my personal experience.

I think as well that people outside the county don’t appreciate that Bucks is a full grammar county, with 25-30% of all children gaining a grammar place. This is not a case of the bonkers super selectives in some other parts of the country.

I feel exactly the same OP.
DD is entering Yr 5 and is bright and engaged. School have confirmed that she is grammar school material. Unfortunately our local Grammar is one of the most competitive in the country and EVERYONE tutors - many from Yr 3.
I honestly believe she would stand a good chance without the tutoring, but I worry that I would be putting her at a disadvantage if we didn’t provide it for her.
I would feel so guilty if she missed out on a place by a few marks if we hadn’t given her the tutoring - and wonder if she would feel that we had let her down by not giving her the opportunity, when she is older. She is very determined that she wants to go to this school.
And so tutoring starts in September. I wish they could find a way to get rid of this stupid system and make it a level playing field for all.

I agree with that too. We're in Kent not Bucks, but it's a similar percentage pass rate. That said, the percentage is very much not distributed equally across schools and demographics, with a disproportionately high pass rate at prep schools, in wealthier families etc. But you can still be pretty confident that a child who's working at greater depth academically across all subjects and has done some good preparation is likely to pass (there are always anomalies who don't though).

Sorry, cross post, that was @Zodlebud.

Thanks for the thoughts

It's interesting to read people talk about not starting til Year 5 because that's what my instinct says. Even half way through Year 5 because I feel like if he is bright and able (and generally hardworking) then it should only be about familiarising him with the types of questions and practicing the weird answer sheet thing. And if he isn't bright and able and hardworking then he shouldn't be going.

But everyone locally starts Autumn Year 4 (officially, I expect some do start sooner) and that freaks me out a bit

I agree with @tontonguetoffee, there’s no moral difference between tutoring at home, or outsourcing (and you might find it gets less straightforward doing it yourself as the pressure dials up a bit towards the end, which is when outsourcing comes into its own, but no requirement to do so of course). I’m in Kent too, which sounds similar. A tutor can be brilliant at understanding the process and guiding you through it, but the info is all available online if you have the time. I outsourced and it was less stressful that way I felt, although it’s not entirely hands off…

That is precisely what we are doing with dd2 (home tutoring) and what we did with dd1 (who got a place at a super selective). It’s hard to not take part in the arms race, but we found it worked better for us as a family to have the flexibility of doing it ourselves.

We started in Y5 for dd1, a bit earlier for dd2 as she had very little schoolwork in lockdown during Y4, so we used some of the 11+ stuff to keep her busy while we tried to work.

We helped dd for 11plus without any tution with help of practise books and sample papers. It worked well for us as she cleared superselective independent and selective state schools both. Mock tests were good for feedback and identified the knowledge gap which we supported. The only main issue was timing as her tutored friends were practising lot of papers and were better than her in terms of timed tests but they could not perform well in real exams and interviews. So in our case, it worked better than tutions.

Mine passed 11+ without extra tuition. A lot depends on the primary school they go to, some are very good at preparing and others don't bother. There are things you can do at home which you can make interesting and fun which will help and you are buying suggested books.

My neighbour's two children both went to grammar school without extra tuition.

Don't feel bad about the grammar system (I am outraged by the lack of funding for education but all I can do is vote for candidates who pledge to put more money in). It is what it is and if there an opportunity for our children to receive a better education, we have to grab it.

I'm a specialist 11+ tutor and would say that you can certainly do it at home yourself. There's no harm in starting early either - if your focus is on problem-solving, doing puzzles, reading widely etc.

I think where a tutor can add value, is in teaching technique and strategy and possibly having expertise in some of the more complex areas of the test.

Definitely don't feel like you have to have a tutor though if you have a good working dynamic with your child. Most of my students won't do a tap for their parents, but work their socks off for me. I think that's why tutors are so in demand!

I hate the system too but it's there, unfortunately. I would say if your child is bright and likes school/learning then absolutely tutor to get into the best school. We had both ours tutored, both passed very comfortably, but DS1 rebelled as he didn't like the 'serious' and slightly pushy atmosphere. He moved to a non grammar in year 8 and is very happy there. DS2 is about to go to the same Grammar but he's more interested in learning generally. One thing's for sure though, you can always switch from a grammar to a non grammar but not the other way around if you haven't passed.

Also it's not fair if they're not on an even keel with others - all the parents I know tutored.

@AlwaysLatte Arguably it’s not fair for the bright children from disadvantaged backgrounds without the money for a tutor or the ability of a grown up to tutor at home.

Ambitious middle class advantage through and through when it’s the children who should get in but don’t because their social circumstances mean they aren’t properly prepared. I wish Bucks would offer free external tutoring to any child suitable for grammar school in receipt of FSM.

I have 2 boys at grammar school

We didn't go down the tutoring route but over the summer before the test (which was in September) they did these 10 minute tests just to get them into the swing of the questions

We were very much in the minority though

I tutored both DS and DD myself. Both passed with high scores. We started in year 5, and that's more than enough. You just have to do a bit of research to find which practice material is relevant to your area's 11 plus, CPG was best for ours, Trafford.
Both DD and DS were very good in NVR, so that helped. They were doing well at school too, so it wasn't a hard slog.

You are tutoring him.

I have just done books and practice with my boys who are now both at at Bucks grammar. Crossing fingers the same works for my third child who takes it this autumn. She does daily 10 min tests before school and then something longer at weekend.

I have 2 at bucks grammars. I agree with others above. For bucks, its not necessary to start either home or outsourced tutoring until yr5 if your DC has a natural aptitude. If you are willing and able to put the work in at home, and he's happy to listen to you, that's absolutely fine.

We did an hour a week with a tutor for yr5 then they had a page or 2 homework each week. If I had tried to do it myself, I don't trust that we would actually have made the time to religiously do it each week so outsourcing worked better for us. It's more about building familiarity with the type of questions and how to answer them, particularly the NVR as frankly half of those type of questions are just bonkers imo!

I home tutored too (in Bucks). DS passed easily and he's not super bright. We started in Year 5.

Unfortunately most state schools in Bucks will not tell you if your son able to pass 11+.

Arguably it’s not fair for the bright children from disadvantaged backgrounds without the money for a tutor or the ability of a grown up to tutor at home.
I totally agree with this, and would rather not have tutored our two, however when all their friends are getting that advantage we weren't going to let him wing it just on a matter of principle. The sooner the archaic Grammar is scrapped and schools are true mixed ability schools the better!

We started both of ours in year 5 too.