Summer holiday house move and school admission

[Retrievemysanity]

We’ve agreed a sale of our house to buyers who live some distance away and they have 2 primary aged DC. We already own the house we are moving to but it needs some building work doing to it and we’re not in a position to move into it just yet-it’s looking like it will be in the summer holidays when it’ll be ready.

Our buyer has phoned some schools in the area to secure places for September but they told him to phone the LA. The LA have told him they won’t process any application until he has actually moved. They’ve also said they aren’t open in the summer holidays so he’s panicking that they’ll move in august but have no school places for the kids in September. Is this correct and anyone got any bright ideas about what he can do?

That's why we'll offer September places from 1st July. Because by the time the offer has to be taken up, the summer holidays have started anyway, and holiday periods don't 'count'. So the place can just be taken up in September instead.

@strigiform

Actually prh47 can I check something on the mechanics of this (as I quite often have parents in this situation). If a parent is moving to a different LA and wants to apply for a new school via their current LA before they move, how does that work if the current LA doesn't generally process in year applications? In our LA, the common in year application form has to be returned direct to schools. So how would the parent complete an application for a school out of county via the current LA? Thanks.

If the school at the destination LA handles in-year admissions there should be no problem - the parents should apply direct to the school.

If the destination LA handles in-year admissions, parents should apply to your LA who should pass on the application.

In his position I would probably get a short term rental/air B and B nearby to your house so he has an address in the new LA and use that to apply for schools if he's that worried about it.

The LA might not accept that. Ours definitely wouldn't let us accept an Air BnB address (this came up recently). With a let, you could only use the address if you were actually living there, and if you did deliberately move into a very short term let and secured a place that would otherwise have gone to another child, you risk losing the place if you then swiftly move into the house that you always knew you were going to be buying, as this could be seen as a deliberate ploy to obtain a school place, rather than a genuine move.

@cleocleo16

In his position I would probably get a short term rental/air B and B nearby to your house so he has an address in the new LA and use that to apply for schools if he's that worried about it.

The LA may well catch this in their checks, which would result in the application being rejected since the buyer does not live within the LA. If the LA didn't detect this the buyer's children were offered places, the places could be withdrawn if the LA found out even if the children have already started school.

@strigiform the friend’s relative works in admissions in our LA so I hope she’s correct! Re the moving into short term rental, it’s probably not an option for our buyers but I don’t see why they’d risk losing a school place if they rented within the same LA as the house they were buying?

Anyway, I think I’ve found a school nearby which has space for at least one of the two children. I guess it’s going to be up to him now to sort it out. Fingers crossed!

I don’t see why they’d risk losing a school place if they rented within the same LA as the house they were buying?

Using a short term rental in order to get a place is seen as admissions fraud. It therefore entitles the admission authority to remove the place even after the child has started school.

@prh47bridge but wouldn’t they then have to reallocate that child a place somewhere anyway?! I can understand the logic if someone rents short term to get in a catchment area of a really good school with no intention of living nearby but if they rent and then buy a house in the same area, how’s that fraud?

Because most schools allocate on distance, so your buyer might still have been allocated a place ahead of another child who also lives in the same area. If it's a vacant place with no waiting list then it's less of an issue, as they should have then been given the place regardless of where they were living (ie they wouldn't have been depriving another child of a place). And yes, the LA does have to allocate them a place regardless - but only once they've moved, and it could be in a very poor school miles away. Example - your house is 0.6 miles from a school - your buyer takes a short term rent 0.4 miles from the school and joins a school waiting list - a place comes up and is offered to your buyer who is top of the waiting list - but the person who's second on the waiting list lives 0.5 miles from the school. Your buyer then moves into your house a month or two later. The LA may well decide that your buyer obtained the place fraudulently and withdraw the place, giving it to the 0.5 mile child instead.

Another thing... schools may have vacancies for September they don't know about yet. The delay of a few days of my elder DD not having a place after our most recent move was the place wasn't on the system as a child had only just left (they left last day before Easter, we moved over Easter). The school knew it mostly likely should go to my DD because we lived only a 100m and had a sibling... but the council did have to check their records to make sure there was no one higher, like LAC. Good job, because they had already discovered no other places within several miles.

Very true. Sometimes we get children leave where the parents have only told us that week, or even occasionally that morning. Things can move very quickly, particularly at this time of year when families are trying to move before the stamp duty holiday ends, or over the summer holidays.

[quote Retrievemysanity]@prh47bridge but wouldn’t they then have to reallocate that child a place somewhere anyway?! I can understand the logic if someone rents short term to get in a catchment area of a really good school with no intention of living nearby but if they rent and then buy a house in the same area, how’s that fraud?[/quote]
Once they have moved into the area yes, they would have to allocate a place but it is likely to be at an unpopular school which has places available and could be some way from home.

It is fraud because they are using a short term rental to get a place at a school where they otherwise wouldn't have got a place, thereby depriving the child who should have got the place. For this reason, many LAs insist that, if parents own a house and also rent, they must use the address of the house they own other than in exceptional circumstances (which the situation you describe is not).

@strigiform

Very true. Sometimes we get children leave where the parents have only told us that week, or even occasionally that morning. Things can move very quickly, particularly at this time of year when families are trying to move before the stamp duty holiday ends, or over the summer holidays.

Yep - school don't know it yet but we're planning on moving the kids' school (very very unsatisfied with how they've actually not supported SEN and there's a lot of bullying issues emerging)... I'd suggest asking school secretaries as they'll have a fair clue of how things tend to turn over in their school as a general rule.

Our area's complicated by military families moving in and out as well.

Also, waiting lists can move very fast. Last week, for example, I received five in year applications on Friday alone, three of them for the same year group (a year group in which I've already got about 7 children on the waiting list). Two of the new applicants are now first and second on the waiting list, and there's only 0.03 of a mile between them. I happen to know that I've got a place coming up next week, so it's crucial that I know not only the address and distance but also the status of each family's move (ie have they exchanged yet), so that I offer the place to the right child. And we're not even the most popular school in town...

@prh47bridge

I don’t see why they’d risk losing a school place if they rented within the same LA as the house they were buying?

Using a short term rental in order to get a place is seen as admissions fraud. It therefore entitles the admission authority to remove the place even after the child has started school.

I think you have misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting fraud. I was suggesting they rent somewhere short term in the catchment for the school and live in that place. Thus having an address to put down to get into a school. Then move into the new home when it's ready. Nothing wrong with that as long as they live there and move into the new house too. They aren't stopping another child getting a place, they will be living in the catchment too.

No, I didn't misunderstand what you were saying. You are suggesting that they take on a short-term rental purely to get a place at a school they want. You may think there is nothing wrong with that but many LAs would class that as fraud even though the parents are moving into the area when their purchase goes through. An increasing number of LAs say that, if you own a house and rent accommodation, you must use the address of the house you own for admissions purposes.

As I pointed out earlier, the OP's buyers can apply for schools near their new home right now by applying through their current LA. If any of their preferred schools have places, they must be offered. That is far better than messing around with short-term rentals and the risk that the LA will class that as fraud.

@prh47bridge

No, I didn't misunderstand what you were saying. You are suggesting that they take on a short-term rental purely to get a place at a school they want. You may think there is nothing wrong with that but many LAs would class that as fraud even though the parents are moving into the area when their purchase goes through. An increasing number of LAs say that, if you own a house and rent accommodation, you must use the address of the house you own for admissions purposes.

As I pointed out earlier, the OP's buyers can apply for schools near their new home right now by applying through their current LA. If any of their preferred schools have places, they must be offered. That is far better than messing around with short-term rentals and the risk that the LA will class that as fraud.

They wouldn't own a house. Their old house would be sold and they haven't yet got the new one. As long as they end up living within the catchment of that school before they get the place I don't see the problem weather that is renting or owning and they 100% end up living there permanently too.

You might not see the problem. There is a good chance the LA would. It is still using a short-term rental to get a place that otherwise would have gone to someone else.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Another thing... schools may have vacancies for September they don't know about yet. The delay of a few days of my elder DD not having a place after our most recent move was the place wasn't on the system as a child had only just left (they left last day before Easter, we moved over Easter). The school knew it mostly likely should go to my DD because we lived only a 100m and had a sibling... but the council did have to check their records to make sure there was no one higher, like LAC. Good job, because they had already discovered no other places within several miles.

Unfortunately , unless the parents have formally withdrawn the child and relinquished the place the school sometimes doesn’t know if they are leavers or just late back from a holiday absence. I have known schools with a number of children not returning in September who have then rocked up again after going to visit relatives abroad. I also know of one school who took this as an opportunity to remove a slightly awkward family from their roll, and hastily fill the places from their waiting list.

Sounds right. Our LA has a 9 july deadling for start of term September admissions. Applications after that date through july/aug would be allocated spaces via an early september deadline for a late september start. We move end July (from overseas) so have looked into this closely.