Year 6 Sats and Year 7 impact?

[slipperyslopez]

So I remember someone telling me that the SATS results a child in Year 6 obtains is used to set GCSE targets at secondary?

Did that really happen? Surely a secondary school would undertake their own assessments when new starters join Secondary in Year 7? So I don't really understand this, maybe it is just some kind of baseline measure?

Also if Year 6 Sats do have some form of consequence for Year 7 and / or Secondary School then what is happening now? I just wonder if any teachers can help me out? What is happening if their are not formal sats?

My son was told he needed to sit a number of assessments for his secondary school and that they would form a report? I will ask the teacher after half term? My son is worried as the tests were crammed in just before the half term and they didn't seem well organised so he doesn't want to come across as unprepared for secondary. I told him not to worry at all, but he said his teacher said the assessments would count for secondary and they were important?

I will ask his teacher after half term too.

Also his teacher apparently told my son and others that they would not know the results of the assessments they sat nor would they see their report.

My child is a good kid and it just seems to have unduly worried him.

For what it is worth he has got a place at a grammar and done well, but for whatever reason what the teacher has said has played on his mind, I will catch up with the teacher after half term. He is being sat next to some of the most troublesome kids in the class (teacher more or less told me this at last parent catch up in a diplomatic manner about how my son was very helpful to person X and person Y) so I wonder if the teacher was trying to motivate the people around him (x and Y) , but has inadvertently causes my son some anxiety. I have told my son not to worry but he is like the teacher says it does matter.

So it just made me think - what is the deal with assessments then usually and what are other schools doing now their is not the usual sats?

also what is it with making kids sit tests but not telling them how they did? I think at year 6 it is natural for my son to get feedback - but maybe they don't usually tell them how they did?

Sats have no impact on setting in y7 - they are purely to test the school. In the past we did send sats results over but along with teacher assessment and comments for example mentioning that a certain child did unexpectedly well or another one hadn't been well and her score didn't reflect her ability. Then children don't go directly into sets, they do CAT tests in y7 and then subject assessments later on. This is all true of my area anyway, maybe different elsewhere but due to the amount of cheating that goes on in SATs tests I cant imagine any high school taking them particularly seriously

They are used to predict bcse results. With schools targeted to get them to achieve.

They are used to set the formal targets for GCSE results against which schools are measured in Progress 8.

At some schools they will target intervention for core subjects on pupils who are not making the necessary progress. So underperforming in SATs compared with ability may mean that if they then underperform in Secondary it won't be picked up.

Alternately, over performing in SATs can mean that at some schools a pupil is marked as 'below expected pathway' or whatever even when doing fine and on track for e.g. grade 7s.

Although some schools may do some initial setting based on SATs (possibly in combination with CATs sat in the first week), and decent school will keep sets fluid in years 7-9. (My eldest changed sets for maths every year, including between y10 and y11).

This year some primary schools are sitting some tests themselves to help inform secondary schools of incoming ability. Secondary schools like to have this info when sorting out tutor groups and for general purposes.

Eventual predictions for GCSEs will be made based on how a pupil is getting on. No school should be limiting expectations based on incoming SATs. e.g. A child scoring 90 in y6 SATs could still go on to be taught to grade 7-9 level in GCSE if they showed themselves able enough.

DD (now Yr 10) did CAT tests when she started Yr 7, and parents were given a report about them later that term. I think it included details about strengths and weaknesses etc.

DD's predicted GCSE scores (which she's on track for) were actually higher than they would probably have been if they'd been based purely on her SATs results.

@ShinyGreenElephant

Sats have no impact on setting in y7 - they are purely to test the school. In the past we did send sats results over but along with teacher assessment and comments for example mentioning that a certain child did unexpectedly well or another one hadn't been well and her score didn't reflect her ability. Then children don't go directly into sets, they do CAT tests in y7 and then subject assessments later on. This is all true of my area anyway, maybe different elsewhere but due to the amount of cheating that goes on in SATs tests I cant imagine any high school taking them particularly seriously

I don't know where to start with this post. Pretty much every single bit is either not at all representative of schools in other areas or just complete rubbish. Much more sensible posts later on, thankfully.

@ShinyGreenElephant

Sats have no impact on setting in y7 - they are purely to test the school. In the past we did send sats results over but along with teacher assessment and comments for example mentioning that a certain child did unexpectedly well or another one hadn't been well and her score didn't reflect her ability. Then children don't go directly into sets, they do CAT tests in y7 and then subject assessments later on. This is all true of my area anyway, maybe different elsewhere but due to the amount of cheating that goes on in SATs tests I cant imagine any high school taking them particularly seriously

Sorry but it really doesn't matter whether your school sends SAT results to secondary schools. They receive these directly from the DfE along with "official" GCSE targets. The SAT results are used to calculate Progress 8 so any secondary school would be foolish to ignore them.

My year 6 also seems to doing unofficial SATs after half term. I wondered if this information was going to be passed on to secondaries so they could make their own unofficial GCSE grade targets (as opposed to government set ones).

It's different for different schools so totally depends on the secondary your son is attending. At my school (secondary) sats results are never looked at and never thought of again. In fact none of the teachers ever know them! It makes not a blind bit of difference. This is not the case everywhere.

Unfortunately the government makes every state secondary school use SATS to measure Progress 8 against. Stupid, but that's what we have to do. However that does not mean a school will use them for setting or that it limits an actual grade. FFT grades are the ones OFSTED like to beat us round the head with if students don't reach them 🤷‍♀️

The Y6 assessment will be reported to the DfE as usual even though there are no tests this year.
"Schools are required to report TA for English writing and science for all pupils."

Only around half of primary schools use the FFT

So much misinformation on this thread!

OP, really don't worry. Not all schools will be doing 'unofficial Sats' so some of your ds new classmates in year 7 won't have them to be compared too. I fully expect they have been done to support the teacher in making his/her teacher assessed grade to pass on.

My dd is also year 6 and did these past SATs papers last week. She (and her whole class) definitely didn't do as well as they would have done if they had been primed lIke previous years, so I'm not too concerned by the scores, but more where she has placed in her cohort (I mean roughly). That will be a clearer considering all the disruption to the past 2 school years.

Most schools use FFT to give them an indication as to what a child will achieve at GCSE based on their Sats scores and a whole host of other data. The FFT definitely has a few holes in it! And it will be based on 'the average' child with those scores so if course you will get some who under and over achieve. I wouldn't want me child to over achieve in the SATs and then be told they are under achieving all the way through secondary!
Lots of schools don't do CATs tests (my seconds doesn't). Like a PP said, even if the school does set year 7, these sets are very fluid over the next few years as the new school gets to know the child.

Honestly. Don't worry about the tests. I do know what my dd got in them though (and they would be classed as a low pass in previous years but she actually came out as top 3 in her class-which I was honestly a bit surprised at as I was expecting more middle banding next year). I expect the teacher doesn't want to pass the marks to the child as they won't necessarily be basing their TA mark/level on completely that test.

KS2 assessment is statutory and must be reported. This year that is Teacher Assessment due to there being no National test because of Covid

@Norestformrz

The Y6 assessment will be reported to the DfE as usual even though there are no tests this year. "Schools are required to report TA for English writing and science for all pupils."

No, they’ve been cancelled too, mrz.

Thank you for all the responses.

What does FFT stand for?

I did also read an interesting blog post that was of the opinion that "Progress" has become the major goal of education as opposed to reaching national targets that previously every student pursued.
So, I suppose if schools are judged on their progress measures it does mean they are supposed to show improvements in what their cohort of children have achieved?

I have told my son not to worry, he incidentally really did well over lockdown and took his own learning very seriously, so I was quite bemused about it all. I am just very proud that he learnt so much off his own back and that he is taking his education seriously. Bless him!

I am actually a bit worried the 11 plus has causes a bit of anxiety to him, I think for him seeing the larger schools and their facilities has really motivated him, he just could not believe some of the grounds of the secondary schools he sat tests in, so he has this strong desire to do well, we are very chilled out but what this has shown me is that 11 + process did have some impact on him, and maybe that is why he is motivated to do well?

I also wouldn't want my child to over achieve in the current assessments because he is in this trying to learn everything and do well phase, when maybe in six months time he just wants to play minecraft and listen to pop music again?

Thanks All!

Wow, so Feenie no teacher assessments need to be reported at all?

But maybe year 6 teachers still need to provide something to the secondary school that a pupil will attend?

Or maybe this round of assessments was just for the primary school, and their records?

Thanks Feenie last thing I saw was our LA wanted all data by June 24th

FFT is the Fischer Family Trust a charity

What happened last year? I assumed it was TA as we managed to very loosely set year 7.

OP, my dd took the 11+ too (didn't pass) and she took a lot from the experience. She suffers with anxiety (referred to CAMHS) and it did wonders for her to sit the exam. It was all under her own steam-she wanted to sit it (I actually discouraged it at first due to her anxiety). She went in nervous and came out smiling. She got a bit wound up about the SATs papers before half term bit again managed fine and by the end of the week she was fine. This girl refused to sit the year 2 SATs and they had to remove her as she just sat and cried .

My rambling is that I've decided that these little assessments are a good way of teaching resilience and how to cope in stressful situations.

I hope your lovely ds keeps his motivation! A secondary school teacher I can tell you it makes more difference than any natural ability

I’ve heard of a few LEAs asking for data, mrz.

It’s down to the individual schools mostly, OP - my Y6 are feeding to 7 different schools and all wanted a TA back in March 🙄. Same last year.

My local authority has asked for SATS levels too, we are being moderated😂

Nothing here - I’m a moderator with nothing to moderate, again!

My daughters school initially set maths, English, science and languages based on sats. They then do their own cat tests with a couple of weeks and re-jig the sets if required. Last year initial sets were done by primary school teacher assessment and then jiggled around after cat tests.