Y1 and school again!

[Oilyvoir]

I've written about my grandson (whom I parent) before. Late summer born Y1. He was a bright and advanced baby and toddler - particularly speech and general cognitive understanding. Won't go into all the details but he was and I think this is relevant to where we are at today. In childcare from a very young age. Childminder mentioned she thought he was 'gifted' aged 2. He was bright but not off the scale like some you read about on mumsnet but certainly very curious and observant. I am a primary school teacher for added context.
He was reading CVC words in his preschool nursery year at 3.5 years and his nursery teacher thought he had an aptitude for maths. He struggled a little with sitting still on the carpet in nursery but then so did most of the others too!
I thought reception would be a breeze for him but it wasn't. His reception teacher recognised he was bright but this was clouded by his difficulty with sitting still and concentrating (not previously a problem because not much sitting still needed in preschool and absolutely no problem concentrating on things he is interested in). He was not allowed to join the read write inc group his reading level suggested he should be in because his writing was immature and he couldn't sit still and focus. At the time I thought it was a young in the year issue - both the writing and sitting still. Early in his reception year his teacher hinted that she thought he might be on the autistic spectrum although his concentration improved during reception. He regressed during the first lockdown with his reading as he refused to do anything and finished reception on 'red'.

Fast forward to Y1. The first term in Y1 he spent in the low attaining group. When I queried this with his teacher, particularly in maths where he clearly has an aptitude, she said it was difficult to know where he was at because of his reluctance to write. He went to school during lockdown but his teacher taught the kids at home so had an TA teaching him and his teacher only just returned after Easter. Anyway yesterday we had parents consultation which was a very mixed bag and I need help unpicking this and deciding what to do next.

Baring in mind he is a late summer born and probably the youngest in the class. He is one of the stronger readers - orange book band - only 5 children reading higher levels (I asked). In the top group for maths (catapulted from the bottom group to the top - he did very well in a recent standardised test meaning she now recognises what I've been saying all year) BUT failed miserably on the phonics screening test 22/40. He really doesn't like phonics so I'm not surprised. He reads using sight vocabulary (remembers quickly) and context cues. She also said that he is a daydreamer and rarely gets things finished. when the rest of the higher attainers are beavering away, he's staring into space (no doubt planning his next minecraft moves) she says that when she calls his name he often won't respond (he does this at home too he's so busy caught up in his own thoughts). His writing is still immature and not on a par with his reading or maths.

My question is - does it sound like I need to have all of this investigated? I'm happy to have him assessed by an educational psychologis if necessary. Is he autistic? Dyslexic? Extremely bright or just plain very young in the year? Please help me unpick this!

He just sounds young to me. What's his reading comprehension like? Can he answer questions about what he's read, or about things you read to him? When you say his writing's immature, is that content, or getting things down on paper, or both? Would he write something on a computer, or dictate to you? If so, is that "better" than what he'd write himself?

I wouldn't worry about the phonics screening if it's not holding back his reading - "passing" the phonics screening is much more for the school than him (and I say this as someone who works in a school!). He should be in the right read write inc group for his level, though - RWI is very proscriptive and places a lot of importance on the right groupings. It might be that he wouldn't "perform" for the assessment which places them in groups, though. Would he be interested in the phonics for the phonics screening if you treated it like a game - a chnace to show them how smart he is? I've had some success with children who are reluctant with their phonics by telling them the "alien words" (made up words which are still phonetically decodeable - the phonics screening is made up of a lot of these) are the names of aliens, and everytime they read an alien name correctly they defeat that alien!

Thanks - I'm hoping it's a young in the year thing!

His reading comprehension is great. Even when he's been unenthusiastic about his reading book and plodded through, he's known what's going on. Inference is good eg 'Why did the cat run under the sofa?' his correct answer 'because she was scared.'

TBH I don't know about his writing. He doesn't write at home and I don't make him. My view is that as his reading is good, his writing will catch up in time but maybe I'm wrong and should take a more proactive approach at home.

He sound a lot like my ds who has an ASD diagnosis. His lovely teacher has worked to get him to integrate into the class but, like your gs, he started the year in the lowest group and has had to work his way up.

Over lockdown I put huge emphasis on writing, printing out those old fashioned three lined sheets. Don’t know why they don’t use those anymore? I think they school is so keen that they write at all they don’t criticise, so in my ds’s case he didn’t get better.
Did all those hand strengthening things that they tell you - play doh, baking scones as the butter needs rubbed in etc.

Basically I’m thinking you might need to practice a bit at home.

It also can’t hurt to speak to the SENCO? If nothing else it could put your mind at rest?

You’re a primary teacher; what do you think?

@Soontobe60
What do I think? That's a very good question. I think it could be any of the 4 things I've mentioned. His mum is also diagnosed with ADHD which I think is a misdiagnosis and she actually has an attachment disorder (I adopted her aged 7). Whole of dad's family including dad very clever especially maths and science but I suspect dad has undiagnosed dyslexia.
That's why I'm considering an educational psychologist assessment to get to the bottom of it whilst he is young.
@Isawthathaggis - how did you know to push for a diagnosis?

A diagnosis hasn’t been all that helpful so far tbh.

Other than the occasional visit from an ‘expert’ who recommends things like ‘if he finds the dinner hall hard to cope with why doesn’t he eat alone in a small room?’. No! If he finds it hard I want the school to help him learn to queue, not isolate him.

Maybe there’s more help out there for other things? In my very limited experience if the child doesn’t need help toileting or speaking then an ASD diagnosis will not make much difference in reception or yr1.

Better to practice at home.

I would encourage you to look at assessment sooner rather than later. I have 2 very bright teens who were largely ignored by schools because they were achieving so didn’t need help according to many many teachers

Both are now formally diagnosed with mixed Adhd which presented much as you describe, the not hearing his name is so like my ds it made me smile

Both of mine were late diagnosed with severe mixed ADHD and ASD but would have benefited from earlier diagnosis undoubtedly and only got assessed as we insisted for dd and paid for ds

He may well slip under the radar as a bright child until he can’t cope and meet expectations which was our situation requiring an EHCP for a gifted child in year 8

As a primary teacher you must be aware that many of the spectrum conditions have been shown to have greater inheritability so with a parental pattern you describe I would be most surprised if he didn’t have one or all the conditions

You should also consider Auditory Processing Disorder. Children with APD often thrive in very quiet situations but struggle in the classroom, particularly when learning phonics. They are often seen as daydreamers or disruptive but they are struggling to access what is being taught as they can’t hear properly. I say hear, but children with APD ace hearing tests. Their ears work fine but their brain struggles to unscramble it all. A bit like dyslexia for your ears. It often goes hand in hand with ASD and / or other processing disorders.

@Zodlebud

You should also consider Auditory Processing Disorder. Children with APD often thrive in very quiet situations but struggle in the classroom, particularly when learning phonics. They are often seen as daydreamers or disruptive but they are struggling to access what is being taught as they can’t hear properly. I say hear, but children with APD ace hearing tests. Their ears work fine but their brain struggles to unscramble it all. A bit like dyslexia for your ears. It often goes hand in hand with ASD and / or other processing disorders.

Was going to suggest the exact same thing - friends son is diagnosed with this and it sounds very familiar.

@Tomnooktoldmeto
Yes I agree with you. How did you go about finding someone who could unpick all of this? I took him to a behavioural optometrist last year and she found very little to be concerned about - just some mildly retained primitive reflexes. For various reasons I am very keen to get him the help he needs whilst young - both of his parents did not and are both paying a heavy price for it now (in different ways).
@Zodlebud When he daydreams he is thinking about minecraft which is his current obsession. He has told me this. When I say 'you must stop daydreaming and concentrate on your work.' he says 'I don't know how to stop daydreaming.' Does that sound like APD?

APD affects children in many ways. It could be a coping strategy as daydreaming is all in your head and you don’t need to be able to hear. My daughter hums when trying to concentrate in loud places as it helps focus on what’s in her head. Your son might just be a day dreamer though! If it’s slightly more obsessive thinking in his life then might be an indicator of ASD.

Interestingly, everyone with ASD has APD but APD can be a stand-alone disorder without any autistic spectrum condition alongside it. My daughter doesn’t have ASD but does have APD. It can be genetic or caused by hearing / ear problems as a baby - my DD had persistent glue ear.

@Oilyvoir your latter description of daydreaming is just like my experiences of mixed adhd, because my dc didn’t display hyper active behaviour it was just dismissed as they were high achieving

My experience is that it’s just them drifting away with the in attentive part of adhd hence non responsive

With DD. It all fell apart at secondary, she had been seen by camhs but not by medically trained staff which as a HCP frustrated me

I knew what I could see but found I only finally got action when I could talk to a medical professional who I could make understand my concerns

With DS I couldn’t even get access and so in the end after his sisters diagnosis I bit the bullet and paid to go privately, we achieved in 3 months privately what it took 6 years to do within the NHS

Since both teens were diagnosed DH has also been assessed and diagnosed to complete the picture, they all have the same profile

I personally if you can afford to would go private to retain control, with ds they tried to involve school who once again said we can’t see it and despite a consultant psychiatrist, myself HCP with decades of paediatric experience and ds identifying the problem more weight was given to the view of an non trained individual who couldn’t identify inattentive adhd

We then paid for the gold standard test by one of the best assessors in the country which conclusively proved he actually had severe mixed adhd which shows that although his teacher was good at history he wasn’t as good as recognising adhd

It shows the system is flawed if a teacher’s opinion is given greater weight than a medically trained person on medical matters

Had we been in the nhs our son would have failed to be diagnosed due to this flawed process and that’s why I advocate maintaining control of assessment if you can