Sibling didn’t get into primary - appeal help.

[AuntieJoan]

Hi all.
Sibling didn’t get into the same primary as her brother. Infact no other out of catchment siblings did. The school are on board for us all to appeal- pan is 15 but can take 20. Think they accepted 18.
but just how do I make my appeal stand out from the others? I have a disability which limits mobility, but can this be a factor ie 2 school runs not appropriate, I also rely heavily on other parents for support when I’m in hospital etc- but this is all focussed on me rather than the child. Any ideas? Thanks all have a great weekend

What was the order of admissions categories/oversubscription criteria for the school? E.g. LAC, ECHP, Faith, Sibling, Distance?

Also are you saying they chose to go over PAN (15) and take in 18 places right from the start?

Thanks for the reply
Only by looking at what was released yesterday the PAN was 15 but the admissions were 7 in group 2 and 11 in group 3.
Which makes 18
All group 4/5 refused
Although I’ve spoken to someone from the school and they said they only took 15, I
Know in September they have leeway to make it up to 20 (mixed classes etc )

1.      Looked after children/previously looked after children.
   

2.      Children who will have a brother or sister at the school at the time of admission who live at the same address and live within the pre-defined community area.
   

3.      Children living within a pre-defined community area.
   

4.      Children who will have a brother or sister at the school at the time of admission who live at the same address, outside the pre-defined community area.
   

5.      Other children. 
   

There’s about 5 of us that didn’t get in with siblings.
Thanks

A set of twins as 'child 15', so the twin gets in as Excepted, taking them to 16, plus 2 late-finalised EHCPs (also Excepted) taking them to 18?

What do you mean can take 20? How are the school's year 1 and 2 pupils organised? With a PAN of 15, the pattern would normally be R15, Yr1 and Yr2 combined in one class of 30. So the school can't randomly take an extra 3 into Reception, as that would breach Infant Class Size legislation once they move up to Yr1 (even if the new Yr2 group was e.g. 12, so the total Yr1 + Yr2 would still only be 30, the school would have to take up to 3 more into Yr2 if there were applicants).

Year 1 & 2 are currently stand alone classes.
Usually the 3/4/5 are mixed in some way.

I’m only going on what I’ve been told in relation to ‘can take 20 in September’

That sounds most odd, tbh! Though it may possibly be something to do with it being a very small school, wanting to take over PAN, but wanting the appeals panel to do it rather than annoy other local schools by doing it themselves.

If you want to PM me the name of the school I'll take a look.

If your DC is a Criterion 2 sibling, then there has been an error. If Criterion 4, then you may or may not have got a place, even if there had been only a total of under 15 under criteria 1-3, depending on where you rank within Criterion 4.

There does have to be a legal reason for the school to admit over PAN, though. They may have the space for 20 in a year group, but if PAN is 15, there has to have been a reason for admitting over this, which the LA should be able to explain.
If the school runs with three separate R, Yr1 and Yr2 classes, the encouraging news is that if you appeal for a place, it will be heard as a a 'prejudice' case, not under Infant Class Size.

If it isn't an 'infant class size' appeal (ie the class won't be going above 30) then you will have more chance than generally for Reception places.

However, someone else will say this so it might as well be me:
This is the risk you ran when you chose to put put older child into an out of catchment school.

Hope you find a solution.

I work for a local authority and see this every year. In general the only way to successfully appeal is if an error occurred in allocating places and had that error not occurred a place would have been awarded. Sadly mitigating factors such as difficulty dropping off at two schools isn't a point of consideration as the criteria for awarding a place is the criteria.

I work in a school and a couple of years ago a parent was successful in their appeal as they use a mobility scooter and this was the only school they could reasonably get to on a daily basis. This was a secondary school so even though their child could travel alone it was accepted. So your argument may have some merit.

I was in your position a few years ago op. Younger sibling didn't get in to the same school as his sister. The school went from under subscribed (15 applying for 30 places) the year dd went, to massively oversubscribed (70 applying for 30 places) 3 years later. It was because of changed Ofsted ratings in all local schools.

I appealed (twice actually) and was unsuccessful although the school was sympathetic and the LA were concerned that their hands were tied. There was quite a lot to it and DS attending his allocated school was a serious safeguarding issue.

I was left with two children at different schools, 8 miles apart but identical start times and no breakfast or after school club. It was a bit of a nightmare.

This does sound odd. With a PAN of 15 and combined classes further up the school, I would expect this to be an Infant Class Size appeal. In that case, you would have to show that an error had been made, depriving your child of a place, or that the decision to refuse was unreasonable in the legal sense. There hasn’t been an error, in that the oversubscription criteria have been correctly applied, but in your circumstances I would try arguing that with a sibling at the school and your disability making it difficult to get two children to two schools, the decision to refuse is unreasonable. Depending on the weight of the school’s evidence, the panel might still not think that’s enough to allow the appeal, but the fact that the school seems to be flexible about whether the PAN is actually 15 or 20 for practical purposes might help you.

If it turns out that the PAN is 20, that helps you even more, if it means that classes aren’t being combined to form 30 and ICS rules don’t apply.

If you're in England it will be very difficult to win a KS1 appeal. The only way you'll get in in my experience is if the LA has made an error and you'll have to prove that they have.

The “up to 20” may be because there is slack further up in KS1. We run 2 classes of up to 30 between Reception, Y1 and y2 with y1 being split. If either Y1 or Y2 is smaller than PAN of 15, you can take in a few more kids in reception and still know that you can meet the limit of 30 in future years and maintain a PAN of 15 for future reception intakes.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

The “up to 20” may be because there is slack further up in KS1. We run 2 classes of up to 30 between Reception, Y1 and y2 with y1 being split. If either Y1 or Y2 is smaller than PAN of 15, you can take in a few more kids in reception and still know that you can meet the limit of 30 in future years and maintain a PAN of 15 for future reception intakes.

The problem with that is, if a child comes along wanting a place in Y1 or Y2, they have to be given it, as the year is under PAN. If you have "given away" those spares to reception, that would mean a Yr1 or 2 class going over 30 and the school having to either rejig everything or employ a new class teacher and split a class. It's a high risk strategy!

Similar happens in my boys' primary: pan of 25, but they have accepted up to 30 on appeal some years.

As I understand it, the issue is physical space within the building. They have had LA assessors in to measure not only the classrooms, but also the school hall etc.

We had the opposite problem two years ago: so many siblings from outside the area, that children a few hundred metres away did not get a place. Your school have a different criteia, but just as tricky! At appeal, all those who lived within the village were given places. I imagine the issue of getting children to different schools will be a weighty consideration for you at appeal. Good luck.

Thank you all for your comments and advice,
I’m aware the appeal is a long shot.
If i loose the appeal am I still able to remain on the school waiting list? I cannot find anything concrete on that- however I’m
Presuming it’s a yes

@AuntieJoan

Thank you all for your comments and advice, I’m aware the appeal is a long shot. If i loose the appeal am I still able to remain on the school waiting list? I cannot find anything concrete on that- however I’m Presuming it’s a yes

Yes- waiting lists and appeals are entirely separate.

The admission criteria order that you quoted does not allow for any consideration of your medical issues, so I am afraid that is of no use to you. It would appear that you fit in group 4, which would explain why you have not been offered a place along with some other pupils.
On the face of it you are not likely to win an appeal except that your comments on being able to take 20 pupils just leaves me wondering what exactly the school do in terms of classes.
As others have said the classic situation for a PAN of 15 is to have a small class of 15 reception year and then one class of 30 made up of years 1 and 2. That would then mean any appeal for reception would be what is termed a future prejudice infant class size appeal. That is the maximum that they can have in one class is 30, that is the year1 / 2 class. However you have already stated that the school appears to have admitted 18 pupils. Whilst there could be reasons why the school had to admit 3 over the PAN of 15, that would be unusual. More importantly the school /LA by admitting the 3 extra pupils may already have broken the future prejudice infant class size regs.
They may well be thinking that they have less than 15 in year 1, so can accommodate the 3 extra without breaking the infant class size regs but actually they have to assume that there could be 15 in each year group and work on those figures.
You need to establish why the school think that they can go to 20 and more importantly how many pupils they have in current reception and year 1 so that you can see what the numbers tell you. It would also be interesting to know how the classes are organised now.

Similar happens in my boys' primary: pan of 25, but they have accepted up to 30 on appeal some years.

Even if the school is its own admissions authority and is responsible for arranging appeals, the panel members must be entirely independent. If the panel upholds the parent's appeal, the decision is legally binding on the school and it must admit the DC concerned. It's not a question of the school 'accepting DC on appeal'.

We had the opposite problem two years ago: so many siblings from outside the area, that children a few hundred metres away did not get a place. Your school have a different criteia, but just as tricky!

At least the criteria for the OPs school seems fair, whereas yours, where out of catchment siblings take priority over in-catchment children, doesn't.

Hello I am wandering if anyone has any advice on school appeals, if I stand a chance
this is my situation, prepare your self quite a long one

my child Refused his primary school admission into reception reason given out of catchment area but still 5 min commute
The school my child has been given is closer so distance is not the issue

my hubby suffers with chronic fibromyalgia and depression/anxiety
This condition can be severe and varies from day to day

i have made arrangements with my sister to help with the school pick ups and drop offs when I am caring for his father or been awake all night due to escorting my hubby for medical requirements, if he’s falllen due to poor mobility.

my sister has a child who also attends the refused school so she will pick up my child in a morning and take him to school
also pick him up after school when needed and takes him to hers on occasions for tea until things are calmer and more settled at home
If My child doesn’t attend the school o he will face missing school on days throughout the week and been late due to not been able to get him there due to caring for his dad when his condition is at his worse
my child’s education will be effected
Also having my sister and his anti as a support person helps lesson any emotional and social interruptions that My child would experience due to missing school.
To send My child to a different school would break that support connection as my sister is only available to help due to travelling to the same school.
i am concerned that my sons educational and emotional and social needs will be greatly affected if he does not attend the school
at that school he has a reliable support from my sister to ensure when it is impossible to get him there on time then the she will take him and the same with pick ups if his farther has fallen or is in great distress my sister will collect My son at same time as her own son and take him home or drop him home.
my child is a very clever happy child and has a fantastic routine and loves school, it is not fair for his schooling to be affected due to unexpected farthers deteration of health.. I just wants to maintain structure and a stable happy routine for My son and try to make sure that the health of his farther does not affect him emotionally.. to have a different school would greatly Add to some form of distress for Him as he would have days off which would lead to poor attendance affecting his education and learning he would be late, also affect my sons emotional needs and social interactions that he requires as a developing child, I just want to maintain his happiness, to attend another school would put My son and and myself under great pressure and stress wich would affect My child, hes a happy 4 year old boy and deserves to be given the chance at a good reliable education
This current routine supports my sons emotional needs and will also ensure he attends school everyday on time and meets his educational needs to

i no the appeals is really hit and miss and I may not stand a chance

thanks in advance