How to choose a school in new area during Covid times - performance tables?

[Justkeepswimming321]

We are moving house this year, as my husband and I both start new jobs soon. We anticipate this move being a long term thing, and intend to stay for at least 10 years in our next house, all going well. Although my two children aren't school age yet, our move will obviously take into account catchment areas and local schools.

Despite being a teacher myself (secondary) I'm really struggling to choose the best school. How on earth do you know?? I want a school where my boys will be happy, but where they'll also get excellent teaching (same as every parent I guess). We can't visit the schools because of Covid. I've scoured the websites but insight that way is very limited. I've looked at Ofsted reports and asked for opinions in the local Facebook groups - but still struggling to decide which school to 'aim' for.

The data on the gov website and Locrating has been useful. I'm drawn towards two schools in particular that have very high 'expected standard' percentage results. However, they scored 0% for 'higher standard' - should this be a concern? If anybody can give me some info regarding the data I'd be so grateful... I'm finding it quite stressful making a decision that will affect my boys until they're 11, especially not being able to go and see the schools in person!

Remember there have been no SATs or externally moderated teacher assessment for the last two summers, so any performance tables you are looking at are distinctly historic data.

Join the local Facebook.group and ask for recommendations on there.

Many thanks. Yes I've joined the Facebook groups and asked for recommendations. And yes - the historical data is a good point but the 3 year trend is useful (ish) I suppose... What else can I go on? Hate having to make such an important decision like this!

We had to choose schools without being able to view. We went by ethos (from prospectus), location (in our case the school was surrounded by trees), local reputation, foster reports

Ofsted not foster!

If I were you, I'd pick the school closest to you. It's so useful to live close to other local parents and great for the kids to live near to their friends.

We moved house in December & made the decision to travel & visit all the local schools - most schools are still doing show arounds. You should give them a call & enquire. From Monday, the stay local rule is completely lifted.

I visited 5 in Nov & Dec last year. One showed us around as normal during the day (with masks obvs) & the other 4, we had to visit after school had finished. It really helped to get a feel of the school & chat to the head & teachers in their classrooms. I was really interested in their early years set up (played based was very important to me), outdoor areas, the ‘feel’ of the school.. I’m not sure what that is exactly but I knew by the end if I could see my child in that school or not. I think maybe how the head acted/spoke, what their priorities seemed to be.. one head spent the entire shoe around explaining in great detail how they’d made it covid safe. They’d stopped reception from free play & they had to sit at desks, facing forwards and play with selected, washable toys. I thought this was terrible & completely against any advice. The other 4 schools thankfully only briefly mentioned it & children could behave completely normally in their bubbles!

I appreciate covid is horribly stressful for schools but thinking that was OK for 4-5 year olds made me realise me & that head would not see eye to eye!

Deffo ring up the schools & try visit, I do think it’s quite important!

In our case, a low percentage getting greater depth in the KS1 did turn out to be significant.
My oldest is only year 1 so I only have insight into the lower end of primary, but we've just moved him as we've been unhappy with his school. DS is reasonably bright, and he's been getting bored because he's finishing work early. His school don't do much differentiation for the brighter kids so he just has to sit there and wait for everyone else to finish. I know from friends it continues to be an issue up the school, and the lack of stretch is then reflected in their SATS results. I had no sense of how academic my then 3 year old DS was going to be when we applied anyway so it didn't occur to me it could be a problem. However, if you have potentially have a brighter child then the poor greater depth results in SATS at your options would at least get me asking questions about differentiation.

You can tell a lot by standing around during drop off and pick up times and observing the parents. Then facilities are a big one (ie grounds) as well as after school clubs offered/music lessons etc. I think greater depth is very important as I would always go for a school that brings out the best in every child rather than getting every child to some average, expected standard. So personally, I would be put off by that. Also to me it has always been important that staff are happy and tend to stay for a long time- if you can get that info somehow. It shows the whole school community work together.

Usually the most desirable schools locally do then attract the most committed parents (the ones who move into catchment) and staff so the cycle perpetuates. Last but not least, a visit is very important to get a feel for whether you like the school and it will be a happy place for your child. That is the only really important question - will your child be happy and thrive in this school.

Many thanks. All very helpful and useful points to consider.

@Springingintospring yes - the thing is though we are relocating to a new area so don't live anywhere yet - and want to choose our house based on the school.

@holmeH many thanks, yes I totally agree that it's important and that's what I tried to do. Unfortunately I was told no tours were being given whatsoever - I'm not surprised though because the school I work in is also not doing tours or open days. I did have a good phone chat with a Headteacher though and they was valuable.

@Musicaldilemma thanks - totally agree that happiness is the most important... But they are so young that it's hard to know now what will make them happy when they are school age. My youngest is only 8 months old! You mentioned observing parents at drop off and pick up... what would you be looking for? Really interesting points re. the importance of greater depth!
@duckchick good point about differentiation... hmmmm. Sorry you had that experience. You've put me right off the schools with 0%! Luckily there are two with decent expected and greater depth data (though slightly lower on expected)...
Still not much closer to deciding, but will probably avoid the schools with 0% greater depth... So thanks! Will ring up the schools again to see if they have relaxed the no visitors policies yet.

Re parents at drop off, there might not be noticeable differences between schools which is a good thing. However, in my area there are in some schools for example, there is the mini Boden very white school with tiny catchment of largely terraced houses which feeds into the outstanding comp everyone has moved for (in this school, kids do not wear uniform, I think they used to even call teachers by first name), there is the pushy church school for which people convert (including some Indians, Chinese and South Koreans etc who were not even Christian) which tops the borough and so many tutor from year 4/5 for grammar and SATS are in the top 100-200 in the country, there are the balanced schools reflecting the area as a whole and there is also the school where parents often swear, smoke or wear PJs at drop-off. I tend to avoid any extreme and go for a mix but others will choose according to their own personal preferences. The mini Boden school is lovely but does not reflect the multicultural area at all - interestingly in it, greater depth is about 15per cent which probably reflects natural ability. Because it feeds into the outstanding comp nobody there “has to” push their kids hard in primary. The top performing church school attracts all the pushy parents and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. However, we live in the London area so I suspect elsewhere in the country hopefully most schools reflect the areas well and are more balanced. So what I mean is check by exclusion that there is not one type of overwhelming parent group unless that would be your preference, for whatever reason.

I wouldn't worry too much if your DCs are that young. Schools can change very quickly - in good a bad ways. Try and find a house where you have a reasonable chance at at least a couple of schools, and you can decide when the time comes.

@Duckchick

In our case, a low percentage getting greater depth in the KS1 did turn out to be significant. My oldest is only year 1 so I only have insight into the lower end of primary, but we've just moved him as we've been unhappy with his school. DS is reasonably bright, and he's been getting bored because he's finishing work early. His school don't do much differentiation for the brighter kids so he just has to sit there and wait for everyone else to finish. I know from friends it continues to be an issue up the school, and the lack of stretch is then reflected in their SATS results. I had no sense of how academic my then 3 year old DS was going to be when we applied anyway so it didn't occur to me it could be a problem. However, if you have potentially have a brighter child then the poor greater depth results in SATS at your options would at least get me asking questions about differentiation.

How exactly do you know what your ds does in class?

OP, the number of pupils at different ‘levels’ - although we don't call them levels anymore - is influenced by many things. The main one being how bright a child is. Cohorts can differ wildly year on year. If its a small cohort, one child at GD will be a high % of the total. If its a 2 form entry, that one child will account for a lower %. There could have been a high % of SEN pupils in the cohort, or pupils whose parents pay for private tuition. All sorts of reasons. And yet people always assume its because of poor teaching.
Generally speaking, if you buy a house in a relatively expensive area / leafy green suburb, the schools tend to have higher results. Buy in the middle of a huge social housing area with a high number of PP children and it may well be different.
I have worked in schools in both types of area. The worst teaching I have seen was in the school with the highest results as the children were just force fed a diet of test test tests in Y2 and Y6 from September to June.

Many thanks for all this. I feel I have a clearer idea now. We spent ages on the internet last night and we have found two schools they we would be very happy with our kids going to (assuming they don't change drastically in yh next two years!! - but we did look at historic data too and old Ofsted reports)... Data is great; everything appears to be significantly higher than national average, and the schools both look lovely on their websites. They are both only Ofsted 'good' schools thought rather than outstanding, but I am aware as a teacher that a great many things can impact on a school receiving an outstanding/excellent. Oddly one has much lower parent satisfaction scores but this might be because it looks like parents might be the pushier type (it seems a more middle class intake: almost 0% FSM, tiny expensive village, 3x national average for 'greater depth' etc) - don't know if the children there are as happy as the other one which is 3x larger entry but has a more mixed intake (higher numbers of SEN, EAL and FSM and higher progress figures) but still decent results data - and much higher levels of parent satisfaction. Hmmmm. Can't choose between the two so will base it on whichever of the two catchment areas the 'dream house' comes up in... If it ever does... That's a whole other thread! Thanks again :)

I recently researched primary schools and applied for a place for DC1. None were allowing visits due to Covid but they all did video tours and/or zoom meetings. Many of the websites were a bit crap so the info wasn't easy to find, and I had better luck contacting them directly. Have you emailed or called the school to ask about video tours or other information they made available to prospective parents? You said you've spoken to one headteacher and that was helpful - see if you can speak to the heads of the other schools on your shortlist, too.

It was easier for me to ask parents' opinions as I'm not moving house so I asked local friends with older children, neighbours, and also asked in all the local Facebook and WhatsApp groups.

In terms of data I did read Ofsted reports but bear in mind that many of them are years old and even recent inspections can quickly become irrelevant as things change in the school. Find out how long the headteacher has been there as a change in HT obviously makes a big difference.

I did look at results data but as PPs said it will be old now. I was interested in progress rather than just attainment, percentage of children achieving above average (DS is bright and I don't want him to be the only one), whether there were any significant differences in girls' and boys' progress (ideally I'd like a school that enables both to thrive), and also percentage of children entitled to free school meals as I wanted a mixed demographic (and also schools get extra funding for those children).

I had questions I asked each school and they were based on my priorities, I would like a school that does its best to meet the needs of each child - whether bright or with SEND, both or neither - and obviously fosters learning but also well-being. Diversity is a bonus in terms of mixed incomes, languages, ethnicity and religion (nb it's all relative, where I live is not hugely diverse but some schools are in more diverse catchments than others).

I was definitely overthinking it given that it's just primary school

Your priorities might be different and also you might be a bit limited by the properties that are available, within budget and to your liking.

If I were you I'd be looking at secondaries too unless you're willing to move again before the time comes.

PS I forgot to say that I found the decision very difficult without being able to visit, but in the end I did just go with my gut instinct (based on all the information I had managed to gather!)

I’d be a bit wary of 0% achieving higher standard. The English average is 11% and my daughter’s school is much higher than that. We’re only ofsted ‘good’ but it is the school that local parents have been clamouring to get into. You’ll get a sense of which schools are the ones people want from Facebook but it is also worth trying to see catchment distances and unsuccessful application data on the council website.

I’d also say some schools are doing tours. I know ours have done some out of hours as I’ve seen parents when I’ve collected mine from wrap around care. Our school also has lots of videos taken by the pupils to give a better sense of the school. I don’t envy you trying to sort this when you’re not local to either school.