Anyone else getting into a tizz about choosing a prinary school for 2008.

[TartWithAHeart]

If I read another Ofsted report my head will burst.

I went to a school which we liked very much and she said "Ignore Ofsted". She is a very well respected Headteacher in the county and the school is wonderful. So I guess she can say that because her reputation is well known.

We are looking for a school that has a diverse mix of children from all backgrounds, ie, social and economic, racial, cultural that celebrates diversity AND has good educational results and challenges the children.

We are visiting a couple of schools - to get a feel for them. But I am so scared of making the wrong choice. You get so many conflicting reports from people - that's why I like to rely on Ofsted because it is supposedly objective. But can they really get a real picture of the school in just two days??

I don't believe they can, and they're ordinary humans too, they bring their own ideas of what a school should be like, and their own prejudices (because,let's be honest, we all have them about somethings).

I wish I didn't have a choice at all, to be honest. I've got three spaces to fill on the application form and it's putting a responsibility on my shoulders I don't feel equipped to take on - it's a long time since I was being educated and my work has naff all to do with schools.

Same here NoBiggy. I was a school governor for a short while, but found the whole thing very challenging and beyond my experience.

I try and look at the Headteacher's enthusiasm and how they engage with DS. Like I said I loved the (oversubscribed and 1 mile from my house) school that we visited, but still have to make two other choices.

Go and have a look at the three most local schools. Deciding on a school for your DC is like buying a house. I think you instantly know when you walk in whether you like it or not. Go on your gut instinct, look at displays, assess the attitude of the person who shows you around and look at the pupils and whether they look happy, engaged etc. Never look around when there are no lessons going on.

No school is perfect, they've all got their good and bad points and you will doubt your choice from time to time.

But why oh why do the shools have "open days" erm... in the the evening when there are no children.

We went to another school this week and were subjected to a one hour Powerpoint "induction". It was so boring. Some people had brought their children with them and there was not even anything to keep them occupied - not even a pile of Lego! There was the opportunity to make an appointment to view the school in action - but I had lost interest by then.

DS is a bright child - my main worry is that he won't get that school that I really liked so I am not fretting about my second and third choices.

Sorry that should read I am now fretting about my second and third choices.

If he doesn't get his first choice you could always keep him on their waiting list, and start him at the second choice. Not ideal but loads of people do that. You never know but the second choice maybe really good.

You're right. I think that my second choice, given that my first choice is an oversubscribed school (and not my nearest) will have to be like an alternative first choice - I know what you say about the waiting list idea - but if I do that I would probably then feel that the school he got into was only temporary and this might affect my ability to engage with that school as a parent.

You'd have to start with the attitude he is going to stay there. What doubts have you about the second choice?

TWAH, press the Heads of the other schools for a personal tour of the school, lie if necessary and say you can't make the open evenings. IMO you need to meet the Head (and I think from what you've said that you would agree). I liked all three schools I visited, but I thought one Head in particular was excellent, and I liked it that the children came up to talk to him at break time and also that he was being used to illustrate a point of grammar in one class that we passed through! This school was probably the least-good physical environment of the three, but it has great potential, and I trust this Head to realise some of this potential. I was even quite forward in asking how long he intended to stay at the school.

I also made it clear (and god this makes me sound pushy!) that I want to be an active parent, and asked how they could use me in any free hours I get. If you can ask about that, see what their response is.

I know what you mean, this feels like a major responsibility, but I feel sure you will get a gut feeling if you are allowed a proper tour with the Head in school time.

Depends how far out of catchment you are though. When we applied for DS1's school we didn't live in the catchment (or even in the same town), we were still in the process of moving, and we didn't get a place. We went on the waiting list and were told that it is highly likely that at least 6 children (out of 90 places) would withdraw before the beginning of term. They were right and we got a place by the end of May for the following September by which time we had completed our house move.

If you are not far outside catchment it might be worth going on the waiting list but undoubtedly you are right to think very carefully about your second choice. And anyway, who knows, just because you are outside of catchment you might still get in because there aren't enough children within catchment to fill all the places and they have use other criteria to allocate the rest of the places.

Once he has started school though, I think you need to forget the waiting list and settle for wherever you are.

Mimizan - totally agree with the house buying analogy, and have never read an Ofsted report. I was terrified I would agonising over secondary 'choices' as they all seemed the same on paper, but when we saw some, (with kids in!!!) and then it just felt obvious which way to go. DS may not get into the one we prefer,and his preference may differ, but the decision as to the choice order was much easier than I thought - after a visit.

Yes Lio. This Head that I am speaking about is the same - I liked that the children felt comfortable talking to her and were able to maintain direct eye-contact. SHe also knew all their names - which helps! Unfortunately she is retiring next year [sad. I too did the parental involvement thing which was well received at this school.

At our local school when I asked about becoming a governor - knowing that there would shortly be places available - I was told by the Head that they didn't need any - but not given any info about how else I could be involved. He didn't talk much about marking and what goes on in lessons much - but said lots about the swanky new playground and the swimming pool!

I have been in a bit of a tizz if that makes you feel any better. I struggled to make up my mind between my DD's current school and one other. Finally decided on DD's current school on the strength of the reception teacher, who then handed in her notice about 2 weeks ago.

I have now written in and changed my application to the other school for which we are about 30 feet outside catchment. It has been a bit difficult with DS though as he went to the nursery at DD's school for one day - at the end of which he was found at hometime by another parent in the road. Last time I saw him there was in the playground which they share with reception so the idea of him going back there bought back a fair few bad memories and I could only cope with the idea as I had complete trust in the reception teacher, hence me changing my mind when she resigned.

Ofsteds sometimes fail to show the whole picture I have found. There is a school locally which has an excellent ofsted but I know a lot of the parents have been very unhappy with the head. When I was looking for DD I had the choice between the local Catholic school which had some of the best results in the county, and the one she went to in the end. Both had pretty good Ofsteds but I found a huge difference in the attitude of the heads and felt that DD would do much better in the one with the headteacher I liked the best (she has now sadly left).

Just seen about the head retiring -this is what happened at DD's school. Her replacement is pretty dire but has been carried along by the strength of the teaching staff. But after 2 years of him they are beginning to leave and the school is changing.

Chocolateteapot that is what I am afraid of - the deputy is also very good and shares an office with the Head, and seems to share her vision - but ... is younger and did not seem to have the same dynamic personality as the current Head, and yes, a good head leaving can be a cue for good teachers to leave too.

When people talk about catchment - what radius/distance from the school is that then. We live in NOrthamptonshire and the criteria is not necessarily catchment - they say everyone should get their first choice, then if it is oversubscribed they go for children in care, children with a sibling at the school, then children who leave nearer to the school.

Your LEA should be able to show you a map with the current catchment areas on. I've been trying to find out how many are applying for the school I've put down, I have not put a second or third choice so put all my eggs in one basket really.

Our LEA works as yours does something similar. We will come after children in care/statemented, those with siblings, those within the catchment area, then for those outside the catchment area it is proximity to the school.

Choc tea pot - I think you should put a second and third choice otherwise you may be allocated one you did not want should you not get your chosen school.

If it happens I am going to appeal to get into the one I want him in. We are lucky round here, there are a fair few good schools around and people do I think usually get their first choice.

I wrote in my letter what had happened to him at the nursery, basically exactly what I would write in the event of an appeal and asked them to take this and our proximity to the school into account (we are just as close to it as we are to our official catchment one). So now it is just waiting until March with fingers crossed.

Oh, that is a shame about Head retiring, TWAH. Hope you can make a decision soon xx

I think Ofsted reports can only give you some useful information, but by no means the whole story and tbh with the light touch Ofsted's these days they have already decided the outcome (my school was recently graded outstanding after 2 hours of observation by 1 person, based upon the results). In fact,the school we've chosen hasn't got such a good Ofsted but things have significantly changed since then.

To get a 'feel' for how the exam results compare look at www.upmystreet.co.uk and enter postcode and click on schools. You can rank them in result order if you want.

I have a choice of 2 primary schools and I liked both so it came down to nitpicking reasons really. The school we've put as 2nd choice is very well resourced, had 24 x3 pupils per class but the classes were open plan and you could hear what was going on in the next class - dh experienced the same as a child and found it distracting. Uniform is worn but is not compulsory and the town we live in is going to expand and this school is undersubscribed so will get rather large.

The school we've put 1st has one class of 30 per year, but is in closed off classrooms, all the pupils looked on task and enjoying the lessons. The pupils were better behaved (not that the other school pupils were badly behaved) and this school has nearly 100% pass rate at KS2. It's also just round the corner and has a full school uniform policy.

You can also apply the 'shoes-test' to assess the intake lol.

DH has banned me from reading any more Ofsted reports. I too am very nitpicky about things and one of my schools although they have a uniform etc and have closed off classrooms - I felt it was a bit messy - coats on the floor - headteacher did not seem bothered by the. Some pupils were being taught in the corridor and when I asked him why he said because they "needed more help to concentrate" WTF in a corridor