Applying for a primary school place

[SallyCinnamon2009]

My son is due to start primary school this September. He turns 5 in October. We never received a letter inviting us to apply for a school place, so we missed the deadline. We have sent our application in now but the local council (Leeds City Council) are saying we will just be allocated a school and have to go on the waiting list for the schools of our choice.
They have admitted we were not sent a letter as they did not have our son on the census, yet they billed us for his nursery fees in September 2020 and the letters for school went out in October 2020. Can anyone suggest anything else we can do? We have pointed all our concerns out and asked them to reconsider our applications and give us a fair chance of applying.

Thank you

I did have an appeal a couple of years ago when the parents' argument was that they never received a letter. The reason the panel dismissed that argument was because the admission arrangements have to be fair, clear and objective. If the LA sent out letters to parents who lived within their boundary, it would not be seen as fair because parents can make an application from outside of the LA.

Ultimately, responsibility lies with the parents to apply. I hope there is space at the schools your prefer when late applications are processed.

Yes, I’ve heard lots of appeals where parents have argued that they applied late or not at all because they didn’t get a letter or prompt from the LEA. They assumed (on the basis of no evidence) that the LEA would write to them to invite them to apply, or that the LEA had access to GP records and knew when babies were born and would reserve a school place for them four years down the line or that (for younger siblings) the school knew that Jenny had a younger brother and so would reserve a place for Jimmy. The LEA reps were always quick to dismiss any such arguments - from their point of view, there’s plenty of information on the website about how to apply, admission booklets in libraries, leaflets handed out at nurseries and pre-schools (because we used to have lots of parents who thought transfer into the attached school was automatic without any need to apply) and adverts in buses and bus stops. They don’t have a database of all the children in the area and (even if they did) that wouldn’t cover potential applicants from neighbouring areas. That’s why I’m so surprised that Leeds would even attempt to write to parents, unless this is a Covid thing because libraries etc have been closed.

I hope this is the same for your area, but there is a 'second round for late applications, April 16th.

People move, circumstances change etc so they do allow for this- FWIW I was expecting a letter and told that they don't send them anymore as they just advertise and assume parents know its 'Sept to Sept'.

We were going to differ my (very!) late August born Dd, but nursery think she's ready so have made and application- we contacted the school choice first to see if they could tell us availability and it looks like they do, fingers crossed on that one!

I worry she's going a little early, she was slightly prem, due mid September so would have been next year, starting with kids turning 5 when she's just turned 4, but I'm sure the school will take this into consideration!?

I'm sure it'll be fine 🙂

I hope this is the same for your area, but there is a 'second round for late applications, April 16th

April 16th is national offer day for primary schools. That isn't a second round for late applications. It is when everyone who has applied finds out which school they are being offered. The only people who won't receive an offer that day will be the few who have applied far too late (within 2 or 3 weeks of offer day), who should receive an offer as soon as the LA can process their application, and those living in areas where there aren't enough places, who may have to wait while the LA negotiates with schools to create a bulge class.

We never got a letter. It’s up to the parents to sort it out.
You must have known that he was due to start in October did you not think to google “apply for school place”? If you know anyone else with children a similar age I’m very surprised that nobody mentioned it to you. Obviously it depends on your circles but It’s very well known generally round here that you have to apply the January before they start.
I don’t think you have grounds for appeal (last census was 10 years ago not sure how that’s relevant) but accept what you’re given and there will be movement on the waiting lists at some point. I know that at our school everyone on the waiting list eventually got in, though one did half way through the first year and the other at the beginning of year 1.

One other thing, do you know whether the school you want is over subscribed most years? If it’s not then this might not be an issue as you’ll probably get it anyway. This information will be on the council website- google historic admissions- or the school might be able to tell you. Best thing you can do is get the application in and get on the waiting list ASAP if you don’t get your preferred school.

Ps see you that you did google and they said they would send letters out in October but that you didn’t need them to apply...so you did nothing for six months?

@prh47bridge

I hope this is the same for your area, but there is a 'second round for late applications, April 16th

April 16th is national offer day for primary schools. That isn't a second round for late applications. It is when everyone who has applied finds out which school they are being offered. The only people who won't receive an offer that day will be the few who have applied far too late (within 2 or 3 weeks of offer day), who should receive an offer as soon as the LA can process their application, and those living in areas where there aren't enough places, who may have to wait while the LA negotiates with schools to create a bulge class.

Well, when I spoke to school admissions that's what's they told me, it was them who said 'second round.....?-

I assume they'll offer places to those that have already applied, on April 16th, then assess the late applications (from April 16th) and go from there....

There are many reasons people make late applications (more than a few)...

Well, when I spoke to school admissions that's what's they told me, it was them who said 'second round.....?

It is things like this that mean I don't trust council admissions teams to give correct information on the phone. Far too many of them give the job of answering the phone to the most junior members of the team who don't understand the process and give poor advice.

They should offer places to as many people as they can on April 16th. Thereafter, late applicants should go on waiting lists along with everyone who didn't get their first choice. Some councils have a formal second round of allocations but this is often little more than the date the waiting lists start to move as a result of people rejecting offers.

@prh47bridge I might be in a 'formal second round area then, or put on a waiting list...either/or we've applied for a school place now so I'm sure someone will contact us to let us know the outcome.

I'm just wondering how many people won't have made an application not knowing their child is due to start (given the 'no letter send'?), also what happens to those parents/children and how it's chased up?

(Btw ours was a decision not to send her and differ a year (accepted), but she does seem ready now, I wouldn't have said that 3 months ago)

I'm just wondering how many people won't have made an application ... and how it's chased up?

But the point is that it won't be chased up. Although education is compulsory, school attendance isn't. If parents don't apply for a school place, the LEA (who, after all, don't necessarily know that the child exists, as they don't have a list) will assume that the parents are home-educating or have a place in a private school.

@PanelChair

I'm just wondering how many people won't have made an application ... and how it's chased up?

But the point is that it won't be chased up. Although education is compulsory, school attendance isn't. If parents don't apply for a school place, the LEA (who, after all, don't necessarily know that the child exists, as they don't have a list) will assume that the parents are home-educating or have a place in a private school.

But surely that's monitored?

Not in any LEA that I know of.

Thats a bit dangerous, don't you think there should be a list provided to the LEA?

Our Lea ask that you let them know if you done intend to apply for a school place as home educating or going private. But have no way to know that you’re doing that if you don’t tell them.

Don’t intend

@Frazzledd

Thats a bit dangerous, don't you think there should be a list provided to the LEA?

Yes. But there isn’t.’

@Frazzled2207

Our Lea ask that you let them know if you done intend to apply for a school place as home educating or going private. But have no way to know that you’re doing that if you don’t tell them.

How do they ask, if their not sending letters, or even know if a child exists??

So, if I didn't phone the council and apply for a school place, my Dd would have/could have stayed out of the education system entirely- no one would have queried this as apparently school attendance isn't compulsory and home education isn't monitored....??

@Frazzledd

So, if I didn't phone the council and apply for a school place, my Dd would have/could have stayed out of the education system entirely- no one would have queried this as apparently school attendance isn't compulsory and home education isn't monitored....??

Local authorities are under a statutory obligation to try and identify children in their area who are not receiving a suitable education. Of course, there is no guarantee that they will find all such children despite sharing information with other agencies. If you had not applied for a school place for your daughter there is a chance she would have slipped under the radar completely, but it is also possible her existence would have come to the council's attention. They may then have made informal enquiries to see if she was receiving a suitable education. If they didn't get satisfactory answers this would then lead to a more formal process.

Our school givers a letter to all nursery pupils and the school secretary will phone with a reminder if forms haven't been returned.

@Frazzled2207

Ps see you that you did google and they said they would send letters out in October but that you didn’t need them to apply...so you did nothing for six months?

My understanding is that OP only googled it recently, not in October, and has found that they've missed the deadline. I think it's understandable - with no prior knowledge of how far in advance applications have to be, you could easily assume it would be at some point in the spring, and if you've not been prompted and are having the year from hell, it might not cross your mind to look it up in the autumn/winter. Good luck getting your preferred choice, OP.

@prh47bridge it seems like such a simple fix...correllate a list and send a letter? Give a written time frame to respond- They send letters from the NHS for immunisations, the council send details of nurseries/providers, child benefit, so its not a confidentiality issue or unknown, childrens birth details are recorded (birth certs!) and passed around quite openly....the question is WHY don't they send a letter asking parents to apply for a school place, the council could've quite easily put a form in with the amount of early years info I got sent?!

From what you've said the repercussions of getting this wrong could fall back on the parent quite heavily!? A parent having missed a deadline labeled incompetent even.....??

I find it ridiculous that the LEA don't have a list, the fact that this might lead to children 'falling under the radar' equally ridiculous, dangerous and so easily preventable-

January for a September start date- alot of circumstances change in that amount of time, so many late applications are understandable, also not helped by putting the responsibility of applications and 'just knowing' deadlines on parents, especially considering many have been cut off from clubs, nurseries and 'other mums' for over a year, many discussions missed.

The parent isn't going to get any grief for missing the deadline for applications. All that will happen is that the child is much less likely to get a place at the school the parent prefers. The parent will only get into trouble if they don't ensure that their child receives a suitable full time education once they reach compulsory school age.

As for having a list, it absolutely is a confidentiality and civil rights issue. To have a definitive list the council would need access to information it is not allowed to have under GDPR. In addition, anyone changing address would have to notify the council of both their old and new address. This would apply to people renting (who are currently not visible to the council at all) as well as to homeowners. It would involve a massive database of the kind that campaigners against ID cards fear, tying together lots of information about you that is currently held in lots of separate databases. Even if you trust all possible future governments with that information, such a database would be a huge target for hackers. Sooner or later, they would find a way in and all your personal information (medical records, council tax, income tax, etc.) would be available to anyone who wanted them.

@prh47bridge OK, understood and agreed re the confidentiality, although after both my Dds were born I did receive many letters regarding early years education/vaccinations- these people (Council, nhs) obviously have access to that information which is (I'm assuming now!) held confidentially under such regulations (the term 'open to hackers' scares the life out of me!), why not send a standard letter stating when your child is due to start full time education, the deadline, options & information of how to apply? This could be sent 'on behalf of the LEA' perhaps, include an application letter??

Also, once an application has been made, your child is on such a list anyway? So is that list also potentially open to hackers? Is it just that the parents have offered this information to the LEA voluntarily that should that happen absolves them of responsibility, accountability and blame?

I'm not in a trusting mood....