Advice/experience re P3 (age 7) reading levels

[prettybird]

Ds is in P3 (Scotland - English equivalent is roughly Y2). I'm wanting to find out what level other kids who are either in or have been through P3 are reading at this stage. I'd also appreciate the thoughts of any teachers around (eg Sammac)

Ds, who is in the "middle" group is reading ORT Stage 6 (The Giant, Robin Hood etc). The "top" group are reading Stage 8 I think. All the kids are given the same book for a week. Ds is getting really bored with it - and I know the kids in the top group are also being bored.

The writing/speling work they are getting also seems pretty basic: for example tonight he has a page from the Nelson Spelling Workbook 3, where he has to "find and copy the words in each set which share the rime [sic] pattern. Cross the odd one out. Colour only the pictures of those with the same rime". The words sets are "ten bed men pen hen"/"fed bed red led pen"/"peg beg ten leg"/"vet pet wet leg jet".

To my mind, this is the sort of stuff that ds was doing in P1 - and that is a boy who struggling with learning to bllend and therefore read properly (as opposed to learn off by heart) - but he did finally "click" last year, and even in P1 he was capable of wiritng and recognising three letter belnds if the picture is there (as it is in this case). Therefore this three letter blending is really boring him. God knows what homework like this is doing to the kids in the "top" group: I know they get the same writing homework.

I'd like the thoughts of those who have been through it/are going through it if this is an acceptable level. We are planning on taking it up with the teacher - but want to get other people's experiences before we do so.

In general we are very happy with the school - it is just this year we have some concerns about the teacher, who we don't think is stretching the kids. (Don't even ask me about Numbers: ds' homework this week was to complete a 10x10 number block with the the numbers 1 to 100 in order, with random numbers already filled in: this is a child who is already teaching himself the times tables ).

We could go direct to the depute head, who we get on really will with (and who has particular responsbility for both the junior school in particualr and literacy in general) but we want to go through the proper process first and give the teacher a chance to explain/redeem herself first.

So, pretty please: what is the experience of other Mumsnetters in Scotland?

[prettybird]

Thnaks LIZS. It would suggest that ds is not necessarily "behind" per se, but that he perhaps could and should be doing more, given that he is bright and keen to learn.

[Aimsmum]

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[pointydog]

has ds passed level A in reading, pretty?

You seem to be focusing on ORT, worth talking to teacher about th edifferent ways reading and comprehension are approached in teh classroom and, of course, you need to carry on getting real books for him

[prettybird]

We had a parents night last week! It was at the parents evening that she said he was "going to be" starting to do maultiplication and some easy division . We did try to raise these issues with her, but she was very defensive and it was very rushed. She also didn't seem to really listen to what we were saying. As far as she was concerned, ds was "doing fine" and that was it. However, since tn we hae had a achance to talk to a few of the other parents who have become friends - and have found out that they have the same concerns

It's also since then that we got the "number square" homework. We did raise with her our concern that the homework was bearing no relation to the programme she had issued at the beginning of term (reading every night, spelling on Mondays and Thursdays, numbers on Tuesday), which she claimed hadn't happened and/or was becasue she had some hospital appointments . One night we got 4 lots of homework in one night. Interestingly, this week the "right" homework came home every night (we also touched on it when the depute asked us how things were going).

[prettybird]

Don't think he has yet pointydog. He has passed his Level A for Maths.

We have tried to talk to her (at the parents evening) about different approaches to stretch him. That was when she said to ask him questions to ensure he understood and to make sure he was answering in proper sentences - but he already understands all the words and thier contexts and will answer in proper sentences anyway

We essentially ageeed to stop doing the reading each night (so why get it?) and to get him to write the answers in the aforesaid proper sentences. The problem is: he can already do that with words he has already come across (eg in the books!) as he has a very good visual memory). He is not being challenged enough with "new" words

[pointydog]

she should have a prediction for when he will pass level A

[prettybird]

Sorry - ds commandeered my laptop to go onto Club Penguin - and then I had my (late) tea.

She didn't give us a prediction as to when he she expects him to pass Level A - and we didn't think to ask (we will next week! )

[gomez]

Hi PB - DD is also in P3 and whilst I don't think comparing reading would be helpful to you - on the homework front her multiplcation this week was based on the 2,3,4 5, & 10 times tables - so 67 X 5 or 23 x 2 type thing. Subtraction is still on double digit, so 56-23 type things. They are now onto learning the 6,7,8 & 9 tables. DD and the majority of her class passed level A maths last December. Most of them are on track to do level B this December we were advised. They are doing 'super sentences' - so using conjunctions, punctuation, adverbs and adjectives tomkae fairly complex sentences around some given words. This week they were wrting 'spells' so for example (and I am copying this to give you a better idea.

First, get your rotten eggs and put them in a large pot to simmer for 5 minutes. Next get your cooked eggs out the pot and peel them.

Hope that helps and give me a shout if you want any more.

[Aimsmum]

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[Aimsmum]

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[gomez]

[prettybird]

Thanks Gomez - you were another one I was wondering about for comparison as your dd is also in P3.

Dh is coming increasingly to the view that we should be going direct to the depute and bypassing the teacher, as we are concerned that the P3 appear to be being taught to the "lowest" common denominator

Ds probably could have done the Level A test last year numberswise, but having seen one of the practice papers, he wouldn't have (then) been able to cope with the reading involved. He only really "clicked" with reading in about May/June (but since then has started reading the SPorts sections of newspapers and is even trying to read my posts on Mumsnet! )

[karen999]

Hi -just checked with my daughter who is in P4 - she is now on Literacy World Stage 1 (think they get this after ORT) The last book she read from ORT was Stage 12. She is going to be 8 in two weeks time.

Homwork is spelling, sentences etc, sums, worksheets.

[prettybird]

Hadn't seen your posts Aimsmum - so even with the problems your dd had last year with teachers, she still achieved her Level A in both English and Maths. Well done her!

We're definitely going to be going in to the school next week (before Thursday when I start back at work..... )

[pointydog]

(Literacy World is a reading scheme which schools choose to buy into - many do not use it)

[pointydog]

remember they sit reading, writing and not English

[karen999]

Pointydog - I did not know this - why do some not use it??

[pointydog]

schools have free choice (unless the authority is heavily pushing a particular scheme) to choose what reading, writing and maths programmes they want to use. Literacy World is gaining popularity (and I like it) but lots of schools choose not to buy in this one.

[prettybird]

Pointydog - I usually try not to say English and remember to say "Language Time" or "Reading and WritingI should know better, given that such a high proportion of the kids at ds' school have English as as an Additional Language.

[Aimsmum]

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[pointydog]

When it comes to National Assessments, there is one for reading and a separate one for writing so English isn't used as far as the levels are concerned.

[prettybird]

I hadn't realised that pointydog. It's obvious when you put it that way!

[Madsometimes]

When my daughter was in Y1 her reading books were only changed once a week and it was infuriating. She was on a low level in the reading schemes (being only 5) so the books were short and simple and easy to memorise. This meant that she was slow to progress. I found that my local library stocked ORT and simply borrowed them from there. Having a new reading book every night really helped her to progress. Now she's on long chapter books (Y3) I don't mind if the books are not changed every day - although they actually are even though she has her old Y1 teacher back.

[gomez]

Hey PB how did you get on with the school?

[prettybird]

Talked to the depute. She said she actually about to have a meeting with th teacher anyway about other issues () and was pleased to have the feedback. She said it was wrong that they were all getting the same homework - it wuld appear that the teacher had corrected the issue of the "not getting the homework out on the right days" by going for the lazy option of just giving everyone the same.

The depute doesn't deal with the maths side, but she said she would raise it with the head, who does the numderacy stuff.

I was actually talking to the head about another issue the following day we got and she said she wasn't being allowed anywhere near the teacher concerned..... . The depute has told her that she (the depute) is dealing with it at the moment.

The depute tld me to cme back to her if we didn't see any change in the homeowrk. I'm seeing her tomorrow on a idfferent matter and will have to mention toher that as far as we can make out, they are all still getting the same homework

WRT to the reading level, the depute actually does some of the reading with him. She says think he is at the right reading level at the moment for hsi confidence - but acknowledges that he is effectively "between" groups. He is still struggling with his written work, so we agreed that we would stop doing "reading" work with him in the evening and instead get him to write answers about the book and if we have time, do some separate reading.

She said how she had watched his confidence levels visibly shrink last year when he was in the "top" group (and she was doing 1:1 work with him to try to keep him there) and doesn't want him to go through that again - but she is going to give some thought as to how we can challenge him again.

Hse says the top group are probably close to doing their Level B - which ds would be nowhere near (which I agree with).

I have confidence in her as she is passionate about reading and learning in general. She also has a soft spot for ds (who of course is a gorgeous wee boy as he is very simialr to her own boy, who is slightly older and who has also taken some time to "click" with reading. As she described it "they are boys who don't fit the curriculum".