Falkner House and Wetherby class sizes

[MusicallyMad]

Looking for a school.

I have been told that the class sizes at Falkner House are nearly double that of Wetherby Notting Hill or Wetherby Kensington. I telephoned the schools and whilst Wetherby told me their class sizes ranged from 18 to 22 boys, Falkner House School said “it varies” and wouldn’t give an exact amount!

Could anyone shed light on this please?

I am not being difficult, but does it matter?

A state would would be 30. So you are obviously looking at less than that. At my DD's girls' prep they varied from 14-20. Parents always got bit ???? at 20 but its a very healthy number if you are not using sets. They did later for scholarship classes but lower down the school, having a reasonable number actually gave lots of opportunities for friends. We liked that.

I would also assume that a good teacher was perfectly capable of teaching 20 or 22. Way fewer than state and I really woud not expect any issues at a top prep school.

Where my DD went for nursery, the class size dwindled and got really really small. It really ended up with problems regarding friends and sport was impossible. 8, for example is far too small. 16 to 20 is good.

Also meant to say the class sizes can’t be double because this would mean over 30 in a class and I think that is the legal limit, or does this not apply to private schools?

Thank you for your reply PresentingPercy. I think it does matter. I don’t want to pay £700 a week for a class the same size as my local state primary (which is 27 pupils). I agree 16 to 20 is good.

Bumping for the weekend!

I agree OP. It definitely matters to me too and is part of what I'm paying for with choosing a prep school. IMO 14-18 is optimal. I can't help with the specific school I'm afraid. Can you read the ISI report and see if it is mentioned ? If not go back to the school and ask again. 'It varies' is fine, but what is your maximum - they should certainly answer that.

I have never ever come across a private prep with class sizes of 30. Ever. You won’t get that.

You might find 22 but, in my opinion, that would be unusual. Most private schools are 20 or less.

Class size isn’t everything or no state pupil would ever get to a selective school or Oxbridge. They do. You don’t want a small class size with a useless teacher either. Most research concludes high quality teaching and background of the child makes the most difference. Not class size. However if you are paying of course you don’t expect 30. But 16-20 makes little difference if you have poor teaching. Therefore don’t get hung up on class size in a prep school.

I’ve just been told in a private message that the year 2 at Falkner is 28 boys. In one class!

Thanks LegoLegs. Falkner House Boys has never had an inspection!

Well they either have a space problem or are trying to save money. They should have 2x14. Ive never seen 28 in a private school class so there is a reason why this school has. Best avoided then. I would wonder what the parents think and are they walking away? Plenty would.

I didn’t say class sizes in preps don’t matter but they don’t matter as much as great teaching. That’s always what matters most. Crap teaching is always the reason why results are crap!

Being Falkner they are likely to be in sets pretty much most of the time so the class size is less relevant? Can't imagine they would under deliver on something like pupil teacher ratio.

@MusicallyMad, you have been misinformed, on a number of fronts.

“I have been told that the class sizes at Falkner House are nearly double that of Wetherby Notting Hill or Wetherby Kensington. I telephoned the schools and whilst Wetherby told me their class sizes ranged from 18 to 22 boys, Falkner House School said “it varies” and wouldn’t give an exact amount!”
To even, initially, type these words, did you, honestly, think that the class sizes at Falkner House would be anywhere from 36 to 44 boys?! About a third of the total number of boys in the entire school!

“Also meant to say the class sizes can’t be double because this would mean over 30 in a class and I think that is the legal limit, or does this not apply to private schools?”
In England and Wales, there is no statutory limit on the size of any class above Key Stage One. Local authorities, governing bodies and academy trusts are subject to a statutory duty to limit the size of infant classes for KS1 children, taught by a single qualified teacher, to 30, or below; see the School Admissions Code (www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-admissions-code--2).
It goes without saying that a school of Falkner House’s calibre, who operate a one-form entry policy, across the boys’ and girls’ schools, would not deviate from this.

“I’ve just been told in a private message that the year 2 at Falkner is 28 boys. In one class!”
Such utter nonsense. As the parent of one of the boys in this class, there are, currently, 24 boys in the class, and a number of the boys will be leaving, for September 2021 entry, at 7+, at some of the top boys’/co-ed schools, in the UK.

Not alone are there 24, and not 28, boys in the single Year 2 class at Falkner House, there are two Year 2 teachers - the boys are taught by two teachers, who are, ably, supported by Teaching Assistants. It works like an absolute dream. In effect, the teacher:pupil ratio is, just, 1:12, and much less, when the boys are being taught in sets. Furthermore, the boys have separate, and wonderful, teachers in science, art, music, PE, etc.

It really is the best of both worlds: the boys have a great circle of friends, whilst enjoying being taught in small groups. The teachers provide challenging, entertaining and informative lessons, in a nurturing environment.

The school were correct in saying that the class sizes vary - they really do, and I am sure that they would have been happy to elaborate further, had you asked them to. Instead of relying on hearsay, you should contact them, again, and take a look at the staff list, on their website.

I hope that this helps. Best of luck with your research, the assessments and decision-making!

Gosh! Do you work there? You sound angry, triggered even! Wow!

@LondonMum24 Whoa! You sound like you teach there.

At American private schools, 15-21 are usual in lower school classes for those under 11. It works well.

MM, let me add a little to LondonMum's comments.

In its inaugural Reception intake (2017), FHB took two classes of 16. Since at the time they had only Reception, a smallish Year 1 and a handful of boys in Year 2, they decided that they had sufficient space and teaching staff to accommodate this. Perhaps this was the source of your confusion about the larger size compared to Wetherby. In any case, I believe a standard intake is 24 (which, incidentally, is the same as the girls' school).

The original Reception intake, now Year 3, has since reduced to 27 after a successful 7+ programme, with a considerable number of the departing boys going to St Pauls. This is larger than a standard intake, true (although it is likely to dwindle further in Year 4 as some boys will leave for 8+ entry). However, they continue to be taught by multiple teachers and TAs as described by LondonMum. For Maths and English they are divided into two cohorts, taught separately.

For disclosure, I am also a parent (and not a teacher).

I should perhaps clarify, the 2017 intake was taught as two separate classes until the end of Year 2. After the 7+ departures, the intake was collapsed into a single class for Year 3.

22 here at my youngests prep. Middle one went up to 23 at one point. Local pushy prep goes up to 26!!! I’d say for one form entry you don’t want lower than 20 for co-Ed or 18 for single sex. If there is more than 1 class then 16 is probably ok: any smaller and socially it’s not great or for teams

FH class of 24 with two full time teachers plus teaching assistants for our boy. Seems to work really well. We did wonder about it at the start but in practice it has been a total non issue. They are broken up whenever they need to be and enjoy being in that slightly larger community. They get a TONNE of individual attention. Seems to work.

As a mum who’s been comparing the two I would say as others have said, the sizes are comparable, even if it’s say the extremes of 18 vs 24 in a class.
I guess other points I have considered when thinking about 4+ entry is that Wetherby NH has 4 classes per year and is a non-assessment school while Falkner is a single class assessment school. So they are really quite different in that sense (sorry, I don’t know anything about Wetherby Kensington). Last point is that Wetherby is a long-standing decades-long highly academic school while Falkner House boys is obviously more of an unknown newcomer. I’ve seen some mums outright discredit Falkner immediately vs the other but when you look at results on their website the school has achieved amazing results in 7/8+ exams in such a short amount of time. FWIW I know parents at both schools and they are all very happy.

We also have been comparing schools and Falkner Penywern Rd does seem to have the largest class sizes of any comparable school. Wetherby Notting Hill has the most teachers/TAs with the fewest pupils per class. I think you also need to look at the size of the schools and the facilities. I wish someone would produce a “pupils per square foot” chart!