JAGS vs Sydenham High School GDST

[BeckenhamMama]

Help please! Our daughter got an offer from SHS and unexpectedly from JAGS (4+). We know that JAGS is considerably higher in league tables and more ‘sought after’ but we are still considering rejecting the offer (only have a few days to decide). One of the aspects we are worried about is school’s approach in case a child needs some extra help (e.g. dyslexia). As it is such an early entry stage who knows what challenges lie ahead! Any insight on either school would be helpful.

Ex Sydenham High girl here but I am 60 so it was a long time ago.

I don't know much about JAGS but found an old thread which you might find useful:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/3831369-Parents-with-highly-able-students-at-James-Allens-or-Alleyns

Well done to your girl for receiving two good offers.

So sorry, Beckenham; I now see the link I posted is about primary schools, d'oh!

You may receive more sensible replies on the Education board.

It is primary that I’m interested in! Thank you

I have a DD that went through JAGS Pre-prep and Prep. They have learning support, learning enrichment, SENCO and take girls out individually or in small groups to support or stretch them.

Is there a reason why you think Sydenham would be better at this than JAGS (I have no experience of the former)?

Similarly, is there a particular reason you worry about this aspect?
Children can develop any multitude of problems between 4 and 18y. Who know whether a school chosen at 4 would be right for an 11y old or a teenager?
Keep an open mind and be prepared to move her, if need be - this goes for any run through school.
Most schools are pretty hot on pastoral care and children’s and teen’s mental well-being - things have moved on a lot from even 5 years ago.

Lastly, it would be easier to move from JAGS to Sydenham than vice versa.

Good luck with your decision - a happy situation to be in but I know how stressful it can still be!

It’s a fair point, I have no idea if Sydenham would be better at it or not. They have a reputation of a nurturing school, while JAGS used to be seen as a hothouse (but I know they shook that reputation off in the recent years).

Equally there is nothing I worry about at the moment, I guess I just don’t want to make an assumption that my daughter is the next Marie Curie - maybe she is, who knows! :) I would like her to be stretched and given opportunities but not at the cost of mental health. That’s the balance we are looking to strike.

We are in exactly the same position of choosing between our offers from these two schools for (4+ entry) and have similar concerns regarding how supportive Jags would be if additional needs are identified.

The schools' ISI reports (Sydenham's is more recent) suggest that a greater percentage of girls (of the overall school population) have been identified with special educational needs at Sydenham, which along with nurturing reputation, makes me feel that they are more familiar with SEND and are happy to provide additional support if required. However Jags's policy (which can be found on their website) also seems pretty good.

I am just concerned of how challenging it would be for a child to keep up with their peers in a highly academic environment, even with additional support, and how that would affect their mental health. I also worry about how it would feel for a child to be managed out if they can't keep up.

I was given some advice today which has helped me to gain some perspective. Both schools offer a wonderful education, so we can't go wrong. However rather than worry about things that haven't happened (i.e. a SEND diagnosis), we should focus on what is important to us right now (Jags has an exciting curriculum, is walking distance from home and has amazing sports facilities which our DD will love), and let our child make the most of the opportunity they are presented with. If things don't work out, they are young enough to try again at a different school.

Easy to overthink it, especially when you get an unexpected offer. We did the same but not between these two schools. For us, the choice between these two was a no-brainer, they are leagues apart.
I know the leagues tables are not the be all but they are pretty high up considering they take girls from 4+, just a few points below St. Paul’s Boys/Girls, Westminster etc with intakes at an older age where testing can be more rigorous.

The work is not high pressured - little homework, girls are tested without knowing they are being assessed (except y & spellings). No homework over the holidays except ahead of the 11+.
The girls have guaranteed entry into JAGS senior unless the school feels they are likely to struggle with the work there and that conversation is had with the parents in year 4/5 - not just left until the results of the 11+ are out. FWIW, I don’t know any girls that were managed out

Just ask yourself, which you would regret more and which decision would be harder for you to reverse. There is no right answer, just what suits your daughter and your family set up.

*except times-tables & spellings

Our DD got offers from both last year. We didn't go with either as she also got an offer from the school opposite JAGS, which was always our first choice. But would agree with 365, if was a choice between JAGS and SHS, would have gone with the former. SHS does feel like the 'warmer' school but JAGS hands down better academically as well as facilities.

I would be cautious about assuming the academics are streets ahead at JAGS - in terms of final results they aren't as different as you might expect given they have their pick of able girls.

I have girls at both prep schools and feel that the offer is very similar at prep. SHS are more parent friendly in terms of communication, wrap around care, busses etc (and has managed the whole lockdown scenarios much better). JAGS has shinier facilities, particularly if sport is important to you.
Both Reception teams are excellent, in my opinion JAGS drops off a bit in the other two years of pre prep.

Another consideration is whether you have another daughter - there are siblings every year who don't get places at JAGS, less so at SHS, and the practicalities of getting two small kids to different schools is a lot different to sending older girls on different busses.

We are in the same predicament. Plus we still have the Alleyn’s 4+ to complete. I am airing towards paying deposit for Sydenham because of the pastoral care that I know it has provided to two families who have older girls there (one has had a lot of time off sick due to ongoing illness & one due to depression) and the support has been wonderful. However, that isn’t to say the same wouldn’t happen at JAGS. But with everything going on at the moment, it feels an important safety net. I worry JAGS will push DD more than I want at this age, we were slightly surprised to get the place tbh!

I genuinely feel on balance the choice is a hair’s breadth though, and if meant to be we can try again at 7 or 9 +

Good luck with your choice! It’s a tough one.

Hello! I currently have a daughter in the pre-prep at JAGS and the pastoral support is second to none. I can't comment on how things progress as they go through the school but i would say that the pre-prep takes a pretty gentle approach to learning, in fact i think many state schools in the area push their kids harder than they do at JAGS. I really couldn't imagine a warmer and more nurturing environment and the girls absolutely love it! My daughter is by no means at the top of her class but she is always still made to feel like she is doing really well and certainly never seems to feel any pressure. Obviously completely up to you which way you go but i wouldn't rule JAGS out on pastoral or support concerns- certainly in the pre-prep.

I would be cautious about assuming the academics are streets ahead at JAGS - in terms of final results they aren't as different as you might expect given they have their pick of able girls

You could also say that when comparing private schools or private versus state.
Both JAGS and Sydenham take girls only at 4+, 7+ and 11+ through similar assessment processes. Demographics are also similar as the schools are only 3 miles apart and do not operate by catchment area. Most (not all) will apply to both schools unless particularly averse to either.
If parents tend to chose one over another, thereby skewing the intake, it is likely due to various factors such as academics, league tables, sport/music etc.

I would agree that considering the school run is important.

I would add, I really did like the junior school when we visited but that was several years ago

The school run is such a massive factor. Dulwich Village was a nightmare anyway, but the timed closures from 8 –10 am and 3 – 6 pm now make the place virtually in passable

Hi, i may be late to the party here and you have had some very salient advice. I have two daughters at SHS and they have both thrived. JAGS wouldn't have been an option due to our location but i do know it well through friends.
I think the prep offer is very similar but what you get at SHS is a smaller and more welcoming environment in terms of parental contact. I know of a few families who turned JAGS down due to not feeling that it was very warm and that it was a bit too 'business like'
The academics at SHS and in general the whole senior school is fantastic and we will certainly stay on. Pastoral care is really at the heart of SHS and it is obvious from the start. I think JAGS are trying to drag themselves out of a bad reputation but i think that even with the best intentions of the school, the parents that generally send their daughters there have very high expectations and a lot of pressure is put on both the girls and the teachers from these parents.
I think it comes down to a gut feeling which is hard if you have had to apply online. Speak to as many people as you can, maybe ask at the school if there are class reps you can talk to who might be able to help?
Good luck!