Move from prep to state - Too bad to even think?

[qask]

We have our DS going to a local prep in Harrow where he is definitely doing well academically or probably far ahead when compared to his state primaries peers. We simply chose it as we were less familiar of the whole UK education system and didn't want to risk it after seeing some lagging behind young kids from state primary.

However, due to our DD nursery and school choice coming up soon it has got us thinking on below. I know state vs private has been discussed to death but here we are thinking of an opposite choice as parents. Are we totally silly and missing something?

1. Prep is academically great but we are finding it extremely competitive for a 5 year old and little or no value add in confidence building and areas such as Music, drama or sports options are limited. DS thrives with those extra clubs over the weekend (in non-Covid times). Do you think moving him to outstanding state in KS2 by moving to a catchment area along with his sibling will be a good idea or it will be too drastic for such a young mind?

1. Over competitive and pushy parents. Surely this is not unheard of in prep schools. Will the chances of local friends and those weekend extra club opportunities and less academic pressure help or could backfire for an academically good student?

1. We are torn between this state (grammar if lucky) vs private secondary for DC as we keep hearing so much about disruption and bad behaviour in secondary mostly. Is it seriously so bad and can work against a Y7 kid in the future?

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated to young parents with less overall perspective of UK education system. If needed we can afford to live in a catchment or pay private in secondary, of course, not without a bit of financial income stress.

In my opinion, paying for private primary education is a waste of money unless there are really no good options nearby. I would save the money for private secondary if you're really keen on private education. In an ideal world, you would always visit the prospective schools.

The best private preps have wonderful facilities and everything you could wish for. You don’t seem to have chosen the best. My DDs former prep (girls only in Bucks) was amazing and we didn’t run around to do anything. It was all at school. Second or third rate private primaries are not worth the money.

The majority of DC at our prep were not miles ahead of state school dc. There are plenty of very clever DC in our primary schools who are high achieving. Very very high achieving! So don’t ever think you are buying superior intelligence.

As a former governor, plenty of outstanding schools don’t go through “hoops”. Everything they do is for the children and to be outstanding these days, dc must be achieving well, make great progress and there will be an excellent Head. When outstanding schools have not been inspected recently, you have to look at government data. That is up to date and good teaching always contributes to achievement and progress. A good rated school will also be good and worth looking at.

Getting into these schools is difficult though. If you want grammar, look at Bucks. Choose your area carefully because so many good schools are full. If you don’t make the grammar, plenty of the secondaries are good. You would need to plan though. Don’t forget home life, your educational level and good teaching are the main drivers of success.

Please remember not all state schools and not all prep schools are same. So it's a very generic question you have asked and none of us can be of real help by sharing our experience.
But since you asked, we are moving our daughter from a prep school to a state school. Our state school is an outstanding school and is oversubscribed. It is considered one of the top schools in the area and we are surrounded by several outstanding schools. I toured several state outstanding schools and all of them were so different! Make a decision based on specific schools. Maybe ask a question here naming the school you are looking for your child to get into?

As others said, all depends on individual schools and what state schools you can realistically get into. We live on a door step of one of those “outstanding” schools that haven’t been inspected in over 10 years. There are no lessons one can observe, all we got as prospective parents was a lecture in a PE hall after school hours, didn’t see the school inside really. Very hard to form a judgement. I think I’ll never know how school does academically, although you can find annual literacy / maths ratings (she school was just below average in all of them). I looked at facilities I could see and listened to the speech. Reception and nursery were mixed together. That’s 60 kids in one big room, with 2 teachers and 2 TAs. In early years education was “child led” we were told, i e if a child wants to pick up a phonics set someone would come up and explain it to them. Maybe there’re genius children for whom it’d work but not mine. No hot food. No grass outside. I mean there was some grass in a planter but otherwise it was 2x2m asphalt covered space, arranged in a cute way but there was no running space for 60 kids. I don’t how it’d get after reception - hope it’s not child - led all the way but I knew that my Dd would be behind after a year of reception, have probably medical problems from sitting in a school dress on a pavement outside (each time I pass I see those kids sitting on the pavement in the middle of winter) and probably would be very emotional having spent a day with 60 ppl in one room. So the choice was between that and a regular nice prep, with everything how it should be - nice small classes, a lot of attention, specialist teachers from early years, proper sport, proper music, lovely playground. I don’t think we could’ve made a different choice but if I could have that for free of course I would

My DD1 was in a hen and chickens classroom for YR back in the day with 65 other children. I’m delighted to say 4 got to Oxbridge eventually so they were not harmed educationally. Great teaching ensured really good outcomes. Small classes cannot give dc brains they don’t possess.

Child led activities are partially ok for nursery/EY but not in YR. In my view. There is a curriculum and schools follow it. My DD learnt a huge amount. So I don’t actually believe DC did what they wanted when they wanted. However work would be differentiated and some DC take longer to settle than others. Some DC are not ready for school in YR and pushing too hard is counter productive. Some of DD2s friends were at a local prep and they were not light years ahead of anyone!

Schools where achievement is below average are not outstanding. So when if is next inspected it might not even be good. Ofsted knows it has very many schools like this but Covid has slowed up their inspection of them.

Only 7% of kids go to Private schools it’s simply not a choice the majority of parents have the ability to make.

Friend moved hers from prep to outstanding primary...kids are doing the same work they did a year ago. Now she thinks with catch up etc it will be too much for them to move back, as other school will be so far ahead of them. However, it was a small prep so after school clubs often included kids from whole school - good in some ways, but off putting for sports like football. Kids were happy at both schools, but they not getting challenged at all, and if they are, it's as additional work that is only slightly more challenging to the basic stuff they're doing.

Also, state schools will not prepare for 11+. Yes, the kids in preps still get tutored as every parent tries to bit the competition but it’s a small amount of tutoring to top up what the school does normally, and I see it mostly as for the parent’s peace of mind, that they’re doing something extra. In state school you’ll have to do it all by yourself. In our prep they start from small amount of prep in Y2 and rump up. Tutoring after school would not be possible for us as we do lots of activities after school (2 instruments requires a lot of practice + some other stuff), and would have to give that up potentially to compensate for the school not doing that prep.

Some of the best preps keep dc to 13. Not 11. Depends on destinations.

Most ordinary preps follow the national curriculum with a few additions and speeding up for the brightest. You won’t find all dc are ahead! The state school won’t have had much of a chance to assess ability and set work in 1 term. However all schools should do harder work in depth when dc need it. Too many preps try and push dc ahead before in depth learning and consolidation takes places. The kids deemed to be ahead now really do not end up being ahead in the end. Well some do but others are not as bright as parents think they are!

Also most prep parents have no idea of what’s in the national curriculum, how it works let alone how assessment and progress data work. It’s impossible to say anyone is ahead of anyone unless you are comparing each system directly and you understand in greater depth learning.

@PresentingPercy, I don’t know if any girls’ preps that go to 13. For boys it’s true

We have co-ed preps round here that go to 13.

Godstowe at High Wycombe. Co Ed preps too. EG Winchester House at Brackley. Probably not any in London.