Any teachers out there? How to I help motivate my Y4 to engage with learning

[PickledLily]

While working practically full time. She likes novelty, so day 1-3 went swimmingly and then tailed off. She hates me being her teacher and won't do any schoolwork without support. All schoolwork is met with tantrums and screaming fits, lashing out. She hates zoom. School set work with an explanatory video then some worksheets to complete, with a daily 'fun' zoom for the whole class. The poor teacher looks knackered, but is doing really well at keeping jolly.
DD is an only child so has no one else to play with and is very sociable so this is really affecting her.
DH has been shit at helping but is now taking her to his office (no one else there) in the morning for a couple of hours, where he mostly ignores her and she does maybe 30mins of the work she wants to do (generally not the set work, might be duolingo for example). I had to hang up on a work call last week as school kept calling me, to ask why she wasn't engaging and that "she is really engaged at school".
So what can I do to help motivate her? The teacher didn't know what to suggest. She is very bright but not academic. I'm really worried she is falling behind on maths. She doesn't respond to reward charts and can spot an educational video at a thousand paces. She refuses to bake or do 'life' things with me, in fact she refuses everything (tantrums, lashing out) unless it's something she wants to do (but she has always been like this).
And a school place is out of the question, they are already full and not all key workers have been able to get spaces. Any suggestions gratefully received.

Not a teacher but here’s some ideas.
Can you just focus on maths and English and not worry too much about the other set work. You will probably feel happier and more relaxed if she is doing the main things.

The school needs to back off with the guilts. It won’t be helping and the last thing is more stress. I’d politely tell them that you are doing your best but as they would be aware children can be quite different at home than they are at school
There was a thread on here awhile ago about how to make schooling more bearable while trying to work. I think it was under chat. One of the best ideas was get your kids to set you an exam. They should do a answer sheet as well. You can answer the questions ( in much less time than it takes her to write the test!) and they need to mark it. Would something like that motivate her?

Can you get her to listen to audio books and do some ytube dancing for PE? Or Mad Fit has some good 15 minute dance based exercise videos that are fun.

Sorry no specific ideas for maths. Good luck

Thanks Rainbow. I tried the exam question thing but it went down like a lead balloon. She's a bit of a perfectionist and very impatient- if she can't do something straight away and get it right, then we are back to tantrums again.

Carrot and stick.

Don't insist she has it done in a whole bulk. Remember the primary day isnt 9-3.30 teaching straight through.

For example
9-9.30 is getting in, faffing, individual task hello and school dinners and registers etc.

Then an hour of lessons followed by 15 minute break that's realistically 25 minutes including faffing.

Then another hour of lessons followed by an hours lunch break that is realistically 1 1/4 with faffing and setting. Then 2 45 minutes lessons which is usually topic (humanities) and and art subject.

So perhaps give her 4 cards. Each one earns a reward when she's completed her work. Eg screen time, trip to park etc. Then allow her to make that choice. I'd also not force the amount of time she does it right now. For example if she happily does 20 minutes maths then allow her the reward.

Get her engaged because she enjoys the rewards and wants to earn.

Very short bursts.
I am home schooling a yr 5 and also work in a school and they onky do actual work for very short bursts, peppered with frequent breaks and verbal interactions.
I agree just do some maths and english and let the telly or Internet take care of the enrichment.
Bitesize or documentarys on topic subjects and maybe she can get into reading as well.
My dd has been reading much more thanks to Tom Gates and the Goosebumps books.
Above all though prioritise her emotional wellbeing and yours.
Its a shitty time esp for only children and you need to be her friend and playmate as well as educator.

Screen time is our issue. If I'm on back to back calls, then she's on a screen. If i ban screens while I'm in a call, she's interrupting me on my calls.

Is she socialising online?
Dd plays roblox and among us with friends and i allow far more than i should as its her only contact with her peers. I do say to her offen that when things are normal she will not have as much.
Tv time is mostly educational stuff so i am not too bothered.
You have to work so needs must. The screen time can be a carrot for small bits of work.
I believe that too much screen time is preferable to having battles with our kids right now. The relationship with our kids is their only one right now so its important for it to be mostly positive.

Can she have a very wide list of things she can do (including educational TV) and language learning apps, include arty stuff. Maybe a list where she can tick off things she's done, so she gets some sense of achievement.
She is clearly not able to do the academic work without support so you are going to have to schedule that into your day. It's really hard.

It's a fine balancing act isn't it. I'm not keen on letting her loose on chat features, but she does zoom a couple of friends while playing online.

There are a couple of things you can try but they might mean not doing everythin.

Put a timetable up as some children like routine. It coud be english at home feels very open ended - at school you have the reasurance of we always go out to play in 20 mins and lot of children dont finish the task at home you dont know if you are stuck there for hours. I set an alarm on Alexa.

Sometimes its hard starting a task so setting up the first sentence helps. Or just drawing a line across the page and saying you need to write to there.

Other children like choice so you would give them acceptable options like maths or english first.

No advice but very similar situation here. Year 5 only child. Simply cannot engage with School At Home and I am working full time.

It's shit and the guilt is never-ending.

Her teacher has said it's fine, not to stress, just do what we can and that's enough. So as much of the maths as we can manage, some of the literacy, and then just cross our fingers that she can go back to school before September...

I wouldn't be bothered except that she's missed so much learning now and is due to sit the 11+ in September. Having looked at some practice papers, I have no idea how she's going to manage that. (But it's important that we figure it out, as she is likely to have a much more positive experience at the school for which she needs to pass the 11+ than the school she doesn't.)

Not a teacher or a parent who has had to homeschool, just throwing this in for consideration.
She's 8/9 right? So not a tot. Have you tried asking her what would work for her? Explain that school is a legal requirement, it's just that it's happening at home now. Make a list of the 'must dos' - maths, English, anything else you is a must do, and a list of the other things school are asking her to do. Then set her the challenge of designing a system/timetable/ learning methods that would work for her? If the teacher has no idea and you're struggling, might be worth a try?

@PickledLily

Thanks Rainbow. I tried the exam question thing but it went down like a lead balloon. She's a bit of a perfectionist and very impatient- if she can't do something straight away and get it right, then we are back to tantrums again.

I feel your pain about the perfectionist and impatience. My son is the same. Thankfully he will do his work (most of the time) but if he gets it wrong, everything goes to shit! He hates us explaining stuff to him.

No solutions I’m afraid but

@PickledLily

It's a fine balancing act isn't it. I'm not keen on letting her loose on chat features, but she does zoom a couple of friends while playing online.

Can I ask how she does this? I don’t really want DS doing too much text chat in games but would be happy for him to actually play and chat at same time. It’s just I don’t know how to do it!

Millie, those are good ideas, she is definitely better when she knows it's only for x mins and there's a timer. Hadn't thought about literally drawing a line under her work either!
Rocking, I have given her the choice, also to devise the timetable. It doesn't work unfortunately. Too open ended for her I think, but she doesn't like the choices!

For those in a similar position, sorry to hear that. The guilt is through the roof here.
Whoever asked about zoom/online games (sorry I can't see your name as I'm on the app on my mobile), it involves 2 screens basically; my laptop for the game and an iPad or phone for the zoom. We are lucky to have lots of laptops/iPads in our house. I've switched chat off on the game she plays.

Teacher and homeschooling parent here. When the teacher rings, put her on to your daughter mean

Sounds like the harder you push, the more she resists. Tell her if she works hard Monday - Wednesday you won't even mention it Thursday and Friday (school might not like it but a lot better than nothing)

I feel your pain! Same issue here. Year 4 daughter, only child, perfectionist, etc. Lots of SCREAMING - like, total regression and tantrums. I told her the village might call the police on us and report for child abuse with the way she has been carrying on. Every day is a battle. And our school has zoom calls almost every hour which don’t inspire her at all. She hates them, hates looking at the video, can’t seem to focus or recall what the teacher has said. And there is a lot of pressure this time around for the teacher to complete the work fully.
BUT I have found a couple things that work.
Mornings are way better, and thank god she has live english and maths classes in the mornings. I have been able to arrange my work stuff around her english and math lessons so I can at least sit there during he call and i tell her to take notes and then at the end I explain what she needs to do and go through some step by step with her. This takes maybe 30 minutes (20 minutes of call and 10 minutes of me working through a few problems). Then I leave here to get on with it. I do the same for English. I find that mornings are so much better.. anything after 12.30 and it is like a different child.

I make her get up and go outside first thing in the morning.. like she is walking to school. While I am getting her breakfast. Even if it is for 5 minutes and it is cold. She can stand in our garden and breathe fresh air.

I make her do the same - go outside - in between lessons. Particularly in the morning.

I have removed the ipad for fun at night completely and she gets it only if she had done her work and handed it in. Sometimes the work is sloppy and done in a rush and I make myself hold my tongue. It took a couple really hard nights for her to learn this, and yes it meant I had to do more with her in the evening when I was extremely tired (monopoly, drawing, etc.) but after 2 evenings of just mom she was willing to do anything to get her ipad back. She gets 1 hr on it at night to play with her friends and that is it. I went down the oh she is an only child and doesn’t interact thing the last lockdown and the first week of this one. She became the meanest, nastiest piece of work. Spoke to me like I had never heard her speak to me before. Yelled when I took it away. There is something about Adopt Me and Roblox which just turns her into a nightmare. I haven’t banned it completely but it is 1 hr in the evening max.

I insist - and this is really hard as I am exhausted in the evening - on sitting down and having dinner together as if it were normal times. I find it helps my stress levels to do something ‘normal’ and despite much pouting on her end, the meals are usually lighthearted and we laugh .I think this is important.

So to sum up. The only motivation I can find (sadly) is ipad time at night. If she doesn’t do her work for her main subjects, math and english, she doesn’t get it. I have tried yelling, I have tried inspiring her to be better, I have tried guilt tripping her, I have tried everything else. The stupid device is all that will work with my ipad addicted child at the moment. I figure when they go back to school I will deal with the addiction then. And hope that something in the english lessons and math lessons is seeping through.

I thank the gods every night she is in year 4 and not year 5 or year 6.

Good luck!

Sounds like you've found a way forward! Mornings are definitely better. I'm struggling to get her out of the house too. I've tried banning screen time but then I just get bugged during my work calls. It's mostly bloody YouTube kids. We tried an Outschool class today on a topic she is really keen on, but she freaked out (anxiety) when she realised there where lots of kids on there that she didn't know. That was the end of that.

I have no advice to offer, but had a similar situation where my DC are deeply suspicious of anything remotely educational, even if it’s “fun”. They hate it, and I don’t blame them. If I was forced to watch videos all day, having to sit there listening to everyone’s shit WiFi and ensuing IT meltdowns, and then to be harangued at the end of the day to write something down to be handed in I’d be pretty miffed. And then you’re just stuck with your parents and siblings, can’t even meet up with a friend for a walk like adults can.
I’m so over anything done over zoom etc, I just can’t be arsed anymore. I’ve lost pretty much all interest in anything. There are loads of online courses being offered by work that I’d previously be interested in that I just can’t be fucked with. If I was a child I’d be pretty miserable now, having every day like this.

Camel, you have a point!

I don't do rewards, TV remote went into store room . Phone is locked now. We watch some streaming in the evening some my interests and few his. He can go playing alone for hours.so any work is done with a bit of force. Rest play or Minecraft etc. If he doesn't do literacy,it's okay.. his writing may catch up when he go back.

Just say that a lot of parents (and this isn't necessarily about the OP) might have an u realistic view of what children are normally like during in-school lessons.
A normal in-school lesson would involve a few minutes input from the teacher where the new concept is taught, then the children do the allotted task on their own, often with an example up on the board for reference. Some finish earlier than others and will then read until it is time to move into the next thing.
The children most definitely do not sit beautifully engaged during this time. Many will be talking, not listening, not looking. Some produce lots of work, others very little (depending on ability). Some can do all of the work, others can only do the first few questions. If a parent could actually see what it's like in a classroom that think many would be a lot more realistic.
From my experience, as both a TA and a mum of 4 school age kids, work and engagement and enthusiasm can sometimes be great, mostly be adequate and occasionally inadequate.

My advice to the OP is not to always expect your child to be full of enthusiasm. Praise them when they are but explain it's something they have to do and if they don't do it when they are expected to, then they will have to do it at a time when they might prefer to be playing etc (eg they will have to catch up at weekends or evenings).
Don't give them the option not to do it. You are in charge, not the child. It doesn't matter if they are not interested in it or find it difficult - that would often be the case in school - it is school work and has to be done.