State private again sorry!

[Yufnkc]

Hi all

My dd1 is at the local state nursery which i feel happy with so far. However the primary stats have been below average in key areas for the past 3 years. I suspect this might be due to a change of head twice due to their retirement. There is now a lovely (young) headmistress who is just someone who truly loves her job and her school.

My husband is very pro private education and its taken me a lot to convince him to let our daughter attend state nursery to see how she does and give it a chance. It's been going well however I'm getting the impression that she's coasting through and not stretched. She will quite happily count and write numbers to 20 but school feedback says she can count to 6! She is September born so I wonder if they are trying to get everyone to a base level and it's not in their interest to stretch her. I do a lot with her at home and the teachers have noticed this so are they more relaxed with pushing her themselves.

My reasons for keeping her in state is that
-I genuinely believe state education can be good if chosen well and with extra curricular/tuition. I wasn't privately educated at all though so I don't know the other side.
-The school backs onto our house so it's a ten second walk to the gate and my parents who help with looking after on my work days are also down the road.
-We save money for secondary education if needed
-i don't know how academically able she is at age 4 I don't think she's a gifted child she's articulate and inquisitive and very academic not into the arts (yet) and I get the impression that private schools are big on arts.

I'm also hopeful that with a new head the school can improve, it's rated good not that I rely much on ofsted reviews

My concern is, Am i holding her back for keeping her at the state school when my husband is convinced that private will provide a better education as she won't be left behind waiting for the rest of the year to catch up? He's also convinced that it provides a mindset of independence and confidence. What if the performance tables continue to score below average and I miss the change for her to start at a private school for reception or year 1?

Lol she's 4. You're not holding her back. So much of a child's development is based on what happens at home. The local school will give her a nice mix of local schools, and hopefully empathy and an appreciation of diversity. If you're successful, wealthy and happy, she will be too. No need to pile on the pressure just yet! Also use your time and money to explore extra classes, swimming, gymnastics, that sort of thing. Academic prowess at that age is a small part of the picture.

*local friends

Also, my worry about private school is that it gives such a narrow bandwidth to their reality. They may be the top 10% cleverest, sportiest, prettiest, wealthiest girl but they feel like a failure because they only see others in that top 10%. There's a trend for super posh bloggers to talk about their dreadful fears and failures and I can't help but think if they'd been to the local school they'd have more perspective!

My eldest is fairly bright - nothing exceptional but teachers noticed him and he was most definitely not stretched at all in state primary. We tutored him in Yr5 and he got into the private secondary we wanted and is so much happier and stimulated there BUT I think having local friends and being near his primary school was a really positive thing. His local friends have been his lifeline over these lockdown periods because they live in the surrounding streets whereas his new friends are from miles away. Same is true for me tbh - I have made lots of excellent friends through attending our local school and feel more embedded in my community. Something to ponder alongside academics!

My concern is, Am i holding her back for keeping her at the state school

She is four. In the nicest possible way, get a grip.

Even amongst the prep/public school crowd “state until eight” is a common practice.

Also, my worry about private school is that it gives such a narrow bandwidth to their reality. They may be the top 10% cleverest, sportiest, prettiest, wealthiest girl but they feel like a failure because they only see others in that top 10%.

Say what now? You think few paying schools select for “prettiness”?

FFS! please don't worry about whether a 4-5 year old is being "stretched" at nursery!
Sounds like it would be madness to move her when it is all so conveniently local. Just keep doing what your are doing with her at home and "stretch" her (if you must...) that way.
We educated ours privately at primary and to be honest it was probably a waste of money we could have saved and spent on nice holidays and tutoring in Year 6 if it was needed.

Firstly, there are two different targets for counting in the EYFS frame work, counting by rote, and counting out objects individually. It doesn't matter how quickly they tick these individual achievements off. It is not a poor setting if they don't recognise they have this skill and record it immediately. It is not a poor setting if they yet to achieve these as quickly as possible. The goal of the early years setting is to have as many of the cohort achieve a GLD for the EYFS by the end of the summer term. This is the same if state or private.

Secondly, academic achievement is not the purpose or the most important aspect of early years education. The most important thing is a strong foundation for learning. This is achieved most successfully through play. The best early years settings will have a rich variety of resources, activities, literature, sensory and heuristic, lots of outdoor time. Theul early years practitioners will know that the children need to work on gross motor activities that involve then crossing the midline, smaller fine motor activities that build up muscles in their hand for later writing etc.

Just because a child can achieve something academically it doesn't mean it is best for their all round development long term.

I once did a tour of an outstanding primary school, it has its own huge forest school on site, all the staff trained as forest school practitioners. Another parent next to me on the tour told me her husband wants her children to go private but she came for a tour out of curiousity because it is so close to their home. She said she thought it looked nice, but she wasn't sure about the children going in the forest over winter and the children (in reception) didn't seem to be doing much written work inside so she worried it wouldn't be very academic. If she'd bothered to compare the two schools she'd see that the academic achievements were equal to the private school next door and they could save themselves 20k a year if they educate themselves about early years education.

There was a recent article in the times that compares the best deprived London schools with private, and the deprived state schools had better results. Private doesn't mean better education, it simply means a more middle class cohort.

@RickiTarr

Also, my worry about private school is that it gives such a narrow bandwidth to their reality. They may be the top 10% cleverest, sportiest, prettiest, wealthiest girl but they feel like a failure because they only see others in that top 10%.

Say what now? You think few paying schools select for “prettiness”?

No of course not but they are often high pressured environments and the ones local to us all have real problems with eating disorders

You have talked about the local state school but you have not mentioned the alternatives. Have you (or your husband) looked at any pre-preps/preps/private primaries or is it all just hypothetical? Is there a local private option or would it mean travelling?

You have also not really talked about the money side. If you can comfortably afford private that is very different to if it is a stretch, particularly if you have other children.

I would say there are some private schools that are worth the fees from day one - but it is not clear if you are considering one of those. Just like state schools, private schools vary enormously in quality.

Why is your husband so pro-private? Did his education give him different opportunities to you? Have you had a proper talk with him about what he got out of his education and why he wants your DD to go to a private school?

We are a bit similar to you: DH educated privately, I went to state school, although I went to a superselective grammar school. In our case private is not on the cards as it would require too many compromises.

I have some concerns that DD is treading water academically. She is in Reception and lockdown learning has been things like using counters to add numbers under 10, which she can do in her head. Other areas she is learning more though and she is learning lots socially. I worry a bit about behaviour. It's not particularly bad in her class but arguably a private school might offer smaller class sizes and a more similar cohort, which can be helpful academically if not in other ways. (DD talks about waiting for another child to stop calling out, not liking X who pushes people. I know this can happen anywhere.) However I went to a similar school and did well academically. Also DD definitely does have a range of friends including some very able ones. She does not stand out academically in the class, although she did to an extent at nursery.

Some things I was interested in were:
The Ofsted report said teaching was weaker in the later years but much improved in younger years. This gives me hope there is time for it to improve before DD gets there.
Her school group them across classes for phonics which means the teaching is much more at her pace.

The school is not perfect (as none are) but is close to home so local friends and we don't have to pay for it. There's no way the potential advantages of our local private school are worth the money to me. Of course your particular schools will be different.

I agree with poster above who says private schools are not all brilliant, quality is hugely variable. If you have a good locally primary I would go for that every time.

The reason the nursery won’t be pushing on with writing numbers is because it is Year 1 objective. I have tendencies towards being a bit pushy but I’m trying hard to be more relaxed at primary but I’m lucky to have a wonderful school on my doorstep that would rival many preps. I am most definitely saving my money for secondary.

I’m kind of in your situation. My first choice is a private school with strong academics. However, it’s selective, so I’ve been thinking about backups, which up until a couple of weeks ago was simply the local state primary. Then we’d try again for 7+ entry if it didn’t work out the first time.

I’m like you - state-educated with DH privately-educated. We met because we were in the same career (my placement slightly more prestigious than his even lol). Of course now, 10 years later, he has a great career, and I’m staying at home with the kids...sucks to be a woman in the world. Anyway, I digress.
It just didn’t sit well with me to have the state option as our backup. Its stats aren’t great, and classes of 30 are too big for my liking, so I’m widening my search to include a couple more private schools with very small class sizes. I feel more academic progress would be made over the 7 years spent there.

I just worry classes of 10 wealthy kids aren't great for developing robust mental health. Feels like a lot of pressure. We're on the fence but our local school has good results so feel we can support with extra curricular /academic if needed and it will hopefully make for a good experience.

My kids are more fortunate than the vast majority of people in the country and I don't want them having a skewed sense that they're actually poor or missing out compared to uber wealthy friends. Our social circle is not very socio-economically diverse, so if I add private school on top I worry that they'd grow up in a bubble.

Usermn78, that's completely fair, especially since your local school has good results. If I lived in a different neighbourhood that I felt had social pressures tied to having wealthy classmates, as perhaps you do, I'd be very worried about certain private schools.

In my view primary school, especially EYFS and KS1, are about more than academic progress. Social skills, learning through play and simply learning how to be in a school environment are very important. If you can afford to supplement the academic side with private tutors if you are concerned, I think there's a lot to be said for staying local for primary.

My DS is starting high school in September - we're going private for that, but he's been in primary in our village state school. It may not excel in all areas, but he has a good foundation and, more importantly for me, has strong friendships and connections locally.

I think the homeschooling thing has taught us that the whole school experience is so much more than reading and writing. All the projects they do that I could never be bothered doing at home, PE, group singing etc. Fwiw I have friends at probably 15 different primary schools, mix of state and private and there's none that I'd avoid. The only difference at this age is logistics so I would choose the local one any day. (my earlier comments relate to secondary, we're v happy with local primary)

Listen, I get your concerns and all but I'd really recommend looking up the learning objectives for each stage of education. EYFS is not about academic achievement, its about well-rounded development through play, especially when it comes to social skills and they'll do very basic maths and literacy too but what you want your child's nursery to do is Year 1 level in any school, whether that is state or private school. I've worked in reception classes and we are much more focused on making sure the children develop problem-solving through real means, like when they both want to play with the same toy. It is rarely about sitting down and doing work sheets

@Yufnkc Please choose carefully as we are finding completely opposite in private. Private prep schools stretch the child so much in academics to get those sought after grades and top sets that everything else is left behind and no time left for anything. May work well if your child is Sept born and very bright and you have that competitive instinct but otherwise it will look like a rat race in the end !