Primary school application - help!

InsideNumberNine · 2021-01-04T14:22:21+00:00

DS due to start primary school in September this year. We are equidistance to two schools – one outstanding, one requires improvement (this school is also in a very sketchy area) No prizes for guessing which one we’d like him to go to! However, that school is massively oversubscribed so I’m wondering whether to still put that as our first choice, or whether to try for another school in the local area. Our options are: School 1 – Oversubscribed for the last five years, one class intake, 0.469 miles from our house School 2 – Oversubscribed in 4/5 years, two class intake, 1.21 miles from our house School 3 – Oversubscribed in 2/5 years. Not been oversubscribed for the past three years. Three class intake, 0.962 miles from our house. School 2 would be our preference as we want to move out of this area and into that area as it’s close to a better secondary too. School 3 looks like we’d have more chance of getting in, but I’m unsure about the three class intake. Even though we’re closer to school 1, I’m still not sure whether that’s close enough to guarantee us a place. The difficulty is that, due to COVID, I haven’t had chance to visit any of the schools. I’ve watched the videos online etc… but they’re all quite similar in style from what I can tell. The aim is to keep DS out of the Requires Improvement school, so which would be the choice most likely to achieve this?

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movingonup20 · 04/01/2021 14:25

Put the school you want 1st, you can't game the system unfortunately

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 04/01/2021 14:27

Put you nearest Outstanding first. Then school 3. Then your other nearest school (presuming school 1 is one of the nearest pair).

Your nearest 'requires Improvement' is better than a RI 2miles away. RI schools can be better that Outstanding schools. Ofsted ratings should be examined carefully (and discounted if more than couple of years old IMO).

(I said school 3 over 2 as it's closer and bigger)

SoupDragon · 04/01/2021 14:27

I agree. You need to put them in your actual order of preference.

It might be worth finding out how far away the furthest admission has been in previous years.

SoupDragon · 04/01/2021 14:30

The primary that my children went to was 3 form intake and it was fine. It never seemed enormous or anything and I suspect it made the transition to a huge secondary slightly less daunting.

LajesticVantrashell · 04/01/2021 14:31

I should have added - school 2 is outstanding, school 3 is good.

We'd actually prefer school 2, but are worried it's slightly too far away. If we got that school, we'd move to the area to ensure it's walking distance. Same with school 3.

TeenPlusTwenties · 04/01/2021 16:25

It doesn't matter how oversubscribed they are. What matters is whether you have a chance of getting in based on where you are in the over subscription criteria and your distance.

In any regard

put schools in your true order of preference
try to have at least 1 you are pretty certain you'll get into

Remember a RI school on your doorstep is better than an RI school 10 miles away.

EduCated · 04/01/2021 16:56

Most schools are ‘oversubscribed’ because of the way the admissions system works. Say there’s three schools with 60 places, and 180 kids who apply for all three. All are oversubscribed, but there’s places for all.

You need to find the data from previous years as to how many children were admitted and the final distances offered. This will help you gauge your likelihood of getting a place - it’s not an exact science, but if the distance offered had generally been a mile and you’re 0.4 then it’s looking pretty good, if it’s usually 0.2 then less so. It can vary a lot by school depending on local geography etc.

LajesticVantrashell · 04/01/2021 17:55

Our closest Outstanding catchment (or furthest a pupil was admitted) was 0.38 miles. My neighbours son didn't get in - although it was a high birth rate year. This year is about 70 lower.

School two and three were undersubscribed in 2019 (similar birth rate to this year). I can't find the 2020 figures.

LajesticVantrashell · 04/01/2021 17:55

Name change fail!!!

user686833 · 07/01/2021 11:45

You seem to have three choices so should be easy as you can put them all. So put them in genuine order of preference. You don't get priority for a place because you put them first. All your choices get sent to each school, and they order everyone who applied for them. Then the council will look at your choices and out of the ones you got a place at will choose your preference. So put choice 2 down first.

I've chosen three schools out of catchment so I'm a bit nervous. My first choice is close to where we are in the process of moving to, but we are no way near exchange. Would have got in 2 out of the last 5 years from current address. Second choice is a wildcard and wouldn't have got in any times in the last 5 years but birth rate has been low so you never know. Choice 3 we are more likely to get into as it is three form, but it's 1.8 miles away and I don't drive. We will have a very undersubscribed requires improvement school next door to the new house. I really don't want that. I haven't put our catchment school where we are now because it's too far from our new house, because there are other undersubscribed schools closer to the new house that aren't quite as bad as the one next door. So if we don't get any of the three choices I will just look for the least bad of what's available.

Original poster

InsideNumberNine · 07/01/2021 11:50

Thank you @user686833 - I think I'll go with my gut and put school 2 first.

The only reason I'm toying with school three first is because it's a three form intake and therefore we might stand a better chance if we put it first. BUT school two is still my favourite AND in the area we're going to be moving into.

Good luck with yours!!!

OP posts:

user686833 · 07/01/2021 12:08

That's not how it works though. You don't get a better chance of a school for putting it higher up. The schools get given a list of all the names of children who applied for them and they are not told what preference order they were listed at. They just number all the names in order of criteria then send back to you he council. THEN the council see which, if any, you are eligible for a place at and check it against your preferences. So say it is a low birth year (I think it was in 2016 nationally) and it is also a low sibling year and you actually are eligible for all three schools you apply for, then the council will give you your first choice. So if you put your third preference first thinking you had the best chance of that one, you'd get offered that one regardless even if you could have had a place at the other two. It's hard to get your head around but definitely put preference first, not what you think you have the best chance at.

Good luck, I hope you get it!

EduCated · 08/01/2021 15:31

What they said! Always put your true preference order, so long as your ‘banker’ is in there somewhere.

ShowOfHands · 08/01/2021 16:15

As others have said, you are NOT choosing a school, you are expressing a preference. The order in which you rank them affects only which one they'd offer first, not whether you get in in the first place. They will offer you the school which is the highest up your list of preferences which also has a space for you.

Please do not think that there is a way of filling in the form that changes anything about the process. Always always always list in order of preference.

EduCated · 08/01/2021 19:47

Think of it as you’re saying: ‘these are the schools we’d like to be considered for, and if we are eligible for more than one, this is our order of preference’.

SumAndSubstance · 11/01/2021 19:36

You should be able to find the admissions data for each school and see what the cut off is. Would you have got a place at school 2 in the last few years? The fact that it’s oversubscribed doesn’t matter if you would have done.

I second too what a pp said, that ‘oversubscribed’ can just mean that too many people listed it as a preference, but it might have been their last preference and they didn’t need the place in the end.

Original poster

InsideNumberNine · 12/01/2021 10:44

@SumAndSubstance - yes. We'd have got a place at school three in the past three years, school two in 2019 (but not last year, max distance was 0.68 miles) and school one in 2019 but not last year as max distance was 0.38 miles.

OP posts:

SumAndSubstance · 13/01/2021 20:40

Oo, that is a tricky one, but sounds like it is still worse a punt. Do you have three choices (is that the same everywhere?)? I would definitely put the one you actually want and then maybe school 2 and school 3? As long as you stand a good chance of getting into one of the schools you actually like, that should keep you out of the one you really don't want. I think I have understood that right!

Original poster

InsideNumberNine · 14/01/2021 07:34

@SumAndSubstance - we have to give five choices, I've put another two in there that are relatively close so we'll see. Deadline is Friday so I'll have to make up my mind soon!!

OP posts:

admission · 14/01/2021 19:17

You are already getting close to the deadline. Please do not wait any longer, just in case something happens outside of your control.

Most importantly check that the application has been accepted and you have confirmation of this. Every year I do admission appeals where people who left it to the last minute find that for all sorts of reasons their application has not been recorded. Many it is the case that in the rush to do it, the form has been filled in but then for some reason the apply button has not been pressed.
Please do it tonight and give yourself a bit of elbow room.

Original poster

InsideNumberNine · 14/01/2021 20:41

Oh don't worry, it's already in!!

OP posts:

viques · 18/01/2021 14:01

@user686833

That's not how it works though. You don't get a better chance of a school for putting it higher up. The schools get given a list of all the names of children who applied for them and they are not told what preference order they were listed at. They just number all the names in order of criteria then send back to you he council. THEN the council see which, if any, you are eligible for a place at and check it against your preferences. So say it is a low birth year (I think it was in 2016 nationally) and it is also a low sibling year and you actually are eligible for all three schools you apply for, then the council will give you your first choice. So if you put your third preference first thinking you had the best chance of that one, you'd get offered that one regardless even if you could have had a place at the other two. It's hard to get your head around but definitely put preference first, not what you think you have the best chance at.

Good luck, I hope you get it!

I don’t think that’s how it works either! The schools certainly don’t see any lists. The local authority feeds all the information from the application forms into its system, the system sorts out the applications according to criteria, allocates the appropriate number of children to each school according to the criteria laid out in the admissions policy, then allocates any children who did not meet the criteria of any of the schools they applied for to alternative schools.

The schools are then sent lists of children given places. The parents are then sent allocation letters. And the fun begins.

But you are right, put your preferences in order, you never know. Birth rates can affect places available, as can families with siblings moving closer to the school, new housing developments, heavy sibling years, safe walking routes, twins and triplets, children with SEN, LAC.

Always include a banker in your last slot. You do not want to be one of the one allocated the school on the other side of the borough that happens to be the only one with a place available.

viques · 18/01/2021 14:13

@user686833

You seem to have three choices so should be easy as you can put them all. So put them in genuine order of preference. You don't get priority for a place because you put them first. All your choices get sent to each school, and they order everyone who applied for them. Then the council will look at your choices and out of the ones you got a place at will choose your preference. So put choice 2 down first.

I've chosen three schools out of catchment so I'm a bit nervous. My first choice is close to where we are in the process of moving to, but we are no way near exchange. Would have got in 2 out of the last 5 years from current address. Second choice is a wildcard and wouldn't have got in any times in the last 5 years but birth rate has been low so you never know. Choice 3 we are more likely to get into as it is three form, but it's 1.8 miles away and I don't drive. We will have a very undersubscribed requires improvement school next door to the new house. I really don't want that. I haven't put our catchment school where we are now because it's too far from our new house, because there are other undersubscribed schools closer to the new house that aren't quite as bad as the one next door. So if we don't get any of the three choices I will just look for the least bad of what's available.

If you don’t get any of your choices the authority will allocate a school, however, even if you don’t like the allocated school the strong advice is to accept the place offered, because then at least you have a place, before asking to go on waiting lists for preferred schools.

If you turn down the allocated school the local authority is under no obligation to offer you another place, you will then have to rely on your own efforts with waiting lists etc and hope that something materialises before September.