MNHQ here: Details on school closures from the Department of Education

[AnnaCMumsnet]

Hello

We have been contacted by the Department of Education about the school closures affecting Primary and Secondary. They say:

"The Secretary of State for Education, Gavin Williamson, has today announced plans to keep early years, schools, colleges and universities open from January.

"The government will now begin applying the contingency framework for education and childcare settings in areas of the country with very high rates of incidence or transmission of the virus, with the first areas to move into the framework listed below. The framework requires secondary schools and colleges to offer face-to-face education to exam years, vulnerable and critical worker children, and remote education to all other students.

"Please note that vocational exams scheduled for the first weeks of January will go ahead as planned."

Return dates for primary and secondary schools & colleges in England

4 Jan – majority of primary schools start returning
4 Jan – secondary schools and colleges to provide remote education for exam years and face to face for education for vulnerable and critical worker children
11 Jan – face to face education for exam years and vulnerable and critical worker children and remote learning for other secondary school and college years
18 Jan – secondary school and college students return for face-to-face education

"In the following local areas under contingency framework, all primary students will receive remote education. The areas will be reviewed on 18 January and any secondary schools in the areas will provide remote learning except for exam years and vulnerable and critical worker children:

London
Barking and Dagenham
Barnet
Bexley
Brent
Bromley
Croydon
Ealing
Enfield
Hammersmith and Fulham
Havering
Hillingdon
Hounslow
Kensington and Chelsea
Merton
Newham
Redbridge
Richmond-Upon-Thames
Southwark
Sutton
Tower Hamlets
Waltham Forest
Wandsworth
Westminster

Essex
Brentwood
Epping Forest
Castle Point
Basildon
Rochford
Harlow
Chelmsford
Braintree
Maldon
Southend on Sea
Thurrock

Kent
Dartford
Gravesham
Sevenoaks
Medway
Ashford
Maidstone
Tonbridge and Malling
Tunbridge Wells
Swale

East Sussex
Hastings
Rother

Buckinghamshire
Milton Keynes

Hertfordshire
Watford
Broxbourne
Hertsmere
Three Rivers

"For more information please go to www.gov.uk/government/news/school-contingency-plans-to-be-implemented-as-cases-rise."

@TableFlowerss
And was your DC ok?

I’m not who you asked, but 11yo ds (previously completely fit, healthy, slim) caught covid, and 9 months later he’s still having relapses, towards the end of term he was getting ill every week.

I’m not saying this to scaremonger as I know it’s thankfully rare, and I’m also aware that flu, chicken pox and other virus can cause long term complications. However, there are vaccinations for all of those, and no vaccine for covid for children.

Just a perspective on why people who’ve experienced covid might not be thrilled at the idea at sending their kids back into school when the rates are this high.

Where did they get the extra funding from @IloveJKRowling?

@middleager so sorry to hear your ds is struggling with it too.

Lol. I’m not defensive on their behalf I just think ranting isn’t going to get anyone anywhere.

You cannot magic up qualified teachers in sufficient numbers even if there is money. You can’t double the number of classrooms in a school. Leaving TAs to teach children on an ongoing basis isn’t fair on the kids or the TAs.

@Fortherosesjoni70 Well I’m not sure that me having heart palpitations is good for my safety. As for my DS, I can’t believe the decline in mental health that he suffered last time was good for him either. Rolling around on the floor and screaming every day because he was so distressed. I have no issues with his safety at school. Amongst the numerous measures that his school have put in place is the regular testing of teachers.

@IloveJKRowling were all school years in during that time or just the mandated ones (year R, 1 and 6)?

Thank you and sorry to hear about your child's struggles too Rat

I don’t see why they can’t allow parents to keep children home if they wish, without any penalties/fines or whatever. I suspect plenty of people would chose that option if it was available.

They would then lead schools open but with less children so teachers wouldn’t have the full viral load of 30 kids.

It’s the best of a bad situation imo. They aren’t going to close schools again. For everyone person that has a case for closing, someone else has a case for them staying open.

@IloveJKRowling

Also, if they'd funded schools to be safer from September, we absolutely wouldn't be here now with schools having to close again.

Friends around the world have children who wear masks all the time and sit socially distanced in small class sizes (some of them doing blended learning) and NONE of them are having their education disrupted like this.

This is the government's failure - so many other countries have done better. We are the bottom of the pile. Yet again.

Yes. They could have been innovative and provided funded to enable better social distancing and continue some in person education. Instead failure leading to disruption to education and health risk to many. This govt have been so appalling. We were in a bad place at the start of the crisis due to the fact the public sector was starved of funding so lacked resilience plus the obsession with brexit pushed back planning for other risks, but they have surpassed my low expectations with how appalling they have been. They say people get the govts they deserve. No one living in this country deserved this disgrace of a govt.

How to make schools safer... here you go

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/independent-sage-coronavirus-infection-schools-b1762906.html

This is from quite a long time ago now and obviously they weren't listened to then and things have got a lot worse, as predicted, as a result.

Today's Indie Sage meeting talks about how to make schools safer too.
www.independentsage.org/

Or, you know, they could follow the WHO guidelines for operating schools during the pandemic (spoiler - our government is NOT following WHO guidelines). www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-schools

From WHO link:
Physical distancing inside classrooms:
In areas with community transmission of COVID-19, maintain a distance of at least 1 metre between all individuals of all age groups, for any schools remaining open. This includes increasing desk spacing and staging recesses, breaks and lunchbreaks; limiting the mixing of classes and of age groups; considering smaller classes or alternating attendance schedules, and ensuring good ventilation in classrooms.

My daughter is sitting shoulder to shoulder with her classmates, literally touching most of the time. So 1m is definitely not happening. At all.

Hey DfE - this is a really simple idea and wouldn't cost you any money:

Every other week in school for half the year group at a time would help interrupt transmission of the virus. There'd be a 9 day break for the kids out of school each time. That’s nearly a ten day isolation.

Why don't we try that? Why didn't we try that?

Let parents keep their children at home without risk of fines.

@DfE:
A couple of questions, why did Boris lie today and say that "schools remain safe?"
Why is everyone being told it is vital to stay home and not mix with anyone, yet you are sending primary schools back in as normal on Monday with zero mitigations? Why can I not therefore go out and meet a couple of friends or family members? Either it's dangerous or it's not. Which is it?
Why is there no extra funding for cleaning in schools?
Will you accept liability for the additional unnecessary deaths that today's announcement will directly lead to?

@LittleBearPad are you completely happy that primary schools continue to be open with no further safety measures in January?

Do you work in a school or do you work somewhere that mask wearing and distancing is part of the health and safety proceedures?

If people didn't come on to rant then Mumsnet would be obselete.

What does funding schools to make them safer look like in reality?

It looks like what many other countries have done to keep their kids and teachers as safe as they could. If the DofE was a serious outfit it couod have long ago surveyed the measures other countries have taken and used the best practice. You know, done the credible, intelligent thing and modeled a response to the crisis in education on what the actual best practice is. But tragically, we are the victims of a government who talk utter bollocks ad nauseum about how "world beating" they are, and do nothing to actually substantiate those hollow, sickly claims. In fact, they do less than nothing, and make the whole deathly situation worse. How the hell do any of them sleep at night?

Answer: they don't believe in giving a shit. It wouldn't even enter their tiny minds.

@LittleBearPad - quite a few of us have come up with constructive ideas.

Let's face it the DfE hasn't put any changes in place at all. Have they?

Can you cite any evidence of changes they've made to make schools safer?

We're giving them some ideas. Ideas they must've had since the beginning. Ideas they've dismissed.

The only way we're going to 'get anywhere' is if we're proactive and make change - which is what most of these responses (that you're also dismissing) are about.

@LittleBearPad

Lol. I’m not defensive on their behalf I just think ranting isn’t going to get anyone anywhere.

You cannot magic up qualified teachers in sufficient numbers even if there is money. You can’t double the number of classrooms in a school. Leaving TAs to teach children on an ongoing basis isn’t fair on the kids or the TAs.

You can't double the number of classrooms but you could reduce the number of pupils on site with rotas that allow for social distancing. You could specify masks to be worn coming onto/off school sites.

All primary staff could have been offered a test before they return to school.

[quote Elephant4]@LittleBearPad - quite a few of us have come up with constructive ideas.

Let's face it the DfE hasn't put any changes in place at all. Have they?

Can you cite any evidence of changes they've made to make schools safer?

We're giving them some ideas. Ideas they must've had since the beginning. Ideas they've dismissed.

The only way we're going to 'get anywhere' is if we're proactive and make change - which is what most of these responses (that you're also dismissing) are about.[/quote]
I’m not dismissing anything. I merely asked what additional funding would do - in reality, in the timescale available.

Would this idea need extra funding?

Every other week in school for half the year group at a time would help interrupt transmission of the virus. There'd be a 9 day break for the kids out of school each time. That’s nearly a ten day isolation.

Sorry I'll word it better.

You can't double the number of classrooms but you could reduce the number of pupils on site with rotas that allow for social distancing. (as Grumbly said)

So half the year group is in every other week. They are therefore out of school for 9 days which is nearly a ten day isolation break that will interrupt the transmission of the virus.

I know this was recommended to the DfE a long long time ago. It clearly was dismissed.

What would this have cost them?

@Elephant4

Would this idea need extra funding?

Every other week in school for half the year group at a time would help interrupt transmission of the virus. There'd be a 9 day break for the kids out of school each time. That’s nearly a ten day isolation.

Who looks after the children when they aren’t in school?

And what happens for children of key workers?

Who looks after the children when they're not in school now?

My kids are off indefinitely. We're in Tier 4 and on the dreaded list.

Whose going to look after my kids for the next few weeks/months? Muggins here.

If the plan I've put to you had been implemented in September we might not be in the mess we're in now.

There could be a 'creche' type thing for key worker's kids. During the lockdown very few key worker kids in primary or secondary went into schools round here.

It's not that complicated. You really are bending over backwards to make this difficult and stand up for the DfE. It's your thinking @LittleBearPad that prevents progress.

Thank you MNHQ, this is clearer than anything I've heard or found online so far.

I'm so worried for my secondary school aged children. We're in one of the listed high rate areas. Seems madness and irresponsible to allow a vulnerable age group back, and the poor poor staff!!!!! WTAF are Boris and his cronies thinking!!??? I used to think he was okish, but these decisions are just bonkers. Exams should just be cancelled and these students kept home safe.