11+ prep

[tescosbutterchicken]

So when do kids start prepping for their 11+ and when do you have to book for a tutor if you choose to go down that route?

I overheard a conversation that they tried to book a tutor to start in 2022 but were told they were already fully booked!!

Mine is in year 4 and haven't even started planning.. what do people plan to do with their kids' 11+ prep who goes to a normal states school?

I wouldn't be shelling out lots of money in tutoring. There are plenty of resources out there to do it yourself. If you are desperate off someone else to do it then maybe a group tutoring session? My daughter has just passed and I never paid a penny for tutoring - just used CGP and sample papers. She started the papers in July and test was October.

We didn’t go down this route but we’re in a grammar county. I think the key question is how well do you think your DC would do with you as the effective tutor? For some, it appears to turn into a negative battle of wills at home which isn’t conducive to anyone! In my area, it’s a real mixture of group & private tutoring (usually from Year 4 onwards) or parents working through the books and papers with their DC. You could try asking at your Primary if any of the teachers offer out of hours 11+ tutoring, I know one at ours did.

We signed up ds for 11+ tutor when he was in yr2 and already some bits were fully booked eg individual sessions. Round here, everyone tutors so we felt he would be at a big disadvantage not being tutored. It is a big time commitment, even with someone else doing the tutoring though.

We signed up his younger brother at the same time - and he hadn’t even started school at that point! Crazy I know, but we wanted the option. He is in yr3 and I know others have looked at that tutor now and she is now fully booked 2 years ahead.

Sorry to hijack but our ds is yr4 and we’ve been loosely considering grammar school entry for him, I went to school in Scotland and so concept of grammar school and 11+ is completely new to me. I’d been thinking about a tutor next year anyway but some of this I’m reading is mind blowing.

Should we have signed up for something already? Is there an idiots guide to 11+ somewhere I should read about now?

Glad I came across the thread

Pleads don't spend money unnecessarily- find out which exam board they are taking for 11+ and go on their website - there are free sample papers and free guidance as to what the have to do. If starting in Year 4 then take it easy - no pressure. Reading and understanding words is key for verbal reasoning - non verbal is question technique and practice. You don't need a tutor just because others do. My daughter did better than others who had had tutors for 3/4 years. She isn't a natural either. It took work between us and doing it at home meant a little and often.

Again, if you are going the home route, just think about how you and your DC get on with more difficult homework. I’ve friends who have home tutored for whom this all became a negative & highly charged process. You know your child best, if you feel it has the potential to be a struggle it may be worth paying for the tutoring.

The county you're in is key. A full grammar county like Kent where 25% pass - you probably don't need much more than some familiarisation practice in Year 5 for a naturally pretty bright child, and you can get that through a tutor or at home. Other areas where only five percent pass are a different kettle of fish.

Good schools usually build up to 11+ for a couple of years, have regular tests so that kids are used to exam conditions and have an idea what sort of questions they will be asked. I think it is wrong to expect parents to pay for extra tuition - which is often quite ineffective - because the school is inadequate.

There are things you can do with your children at home, especially VR and NVR, which will help. You can download past eleven plus papers in some areas but really, schools should be doing that already.

Schools round here do no preparation for the 11 plus at all. My boys have all gone to our local grammar. We did a year of tuition once a week in year 5 to get them used to the questions, the maths as well as a lot of it is not covered until year 6 and of course the exam is right at the beginning of year 6.

Schools in my area do nothing for the 11+ and the test has no VR or NVR component. The 11+ test is different by region and often by school too. The grammar in the next town to me uses a different test to the 8 or 9 other grammar schools in the county.

My town only has super selective grammars so some start prepping from KS1, and the highly regarded tutors have a three year waiting list and are £60-100 an hour. However my daughter didn't need the tutor or the years of extra prep and the two children tutored from KS1 didn't get a place in the end. If your kid is exceeding expectations on their reports and levels often the only thing you need to do is prepare them for the actual exam - check answers, make sure you answer all the questions etc. If you have an 11+ plus test broken down into timed sections then speed and accuracy practice is vital.

The eleven plus forum (just stick it into google) is broken down into regions so you can connect with other parents, ask for help and look at the passing scores for the last few years.

@australis “ A full grammar county like Kent where 25% pass - you probably don't need much more than some familiarisation practice in Year 5 for a naturally pretty bright child”

Kent here and I know about 25 children at our grammars. Yes about 25% of children here go to our grammars (none of whom that I know have got through without either professional tutoring usually from Year 4 or coaching from graduate level parents). While I wouldn’t dispute a bright child might get through with a little study, from what I can directly see they are getting quite a bit more than a little familiarisation by and large! It’s a bit of a fallacy that it’s the brightest are getting in, entry is usually paid for either in money or parental time. It’s a terrible system but unfortunately it is what it is!

@jessstan1 “ Good schools usually build up to 11+ for a couple of years, have regular tests so that kids are used to exam conditions and have an idea what sort of questions they will be asked.”

This may happen in other regions and most definitely happens in private schools but in Kent there is no preparation in schools for the 11+. Of the three parents I know who put their DC on for the 11+ without any preparation, none passed. That says something.

Campervan: Schools round here do no preparation for the 11 plus at all.

I've heard that is true in a lot of places and think it is disgraceful. It should be normal practice whether a child takes the exam or not, it used to be.

Our area the schools do no practice.my eldest was clever, top of class, plus he had extra points for the age banding thing as he is August born. We thought he would fly through and just did a bit of familiarisation of exam papers. He ended up borderline and only got in from waiting list.

We have our youngest down for tutoring starting October of year 5 for a year. He's clever too but we want that insurance policy to give him that extra edge over others.

He's currently year 4...so we've booked on a year in advance, it's one 90 min class a week with about 8 other children.

Username93: "... it's one 90 min class a week with about 8 other children."

That sounds all right, I've read about people whose children are tutored three evenings a week plus loads of homework. They have no life and then fail anyway.

Your eldest did jolly well!

It is a shame about the teaching in so many primary schools though.

Depends where you live, and how well your child responds to you tutoring etc.

We live just outside a grammar school county, and in our area we have part selective schools where the selective places are basically super selective (so no pass mark).

I've seen friends waste hours of time and hundreds/thousands of pounds on tutors from Year 4, which made absolutely no difference to a child's outcome.

Others, who already had a high achieving child, tutored for a shorter time just to perfect exam technique.

Mine are happy to work with me, so I prepped at home from end of year 4 (just an hour every couple of weeks) and both got selective places.

State schools here are not allowed to coach for the exam.

Elevenplusexams.co.uk is definitely the best place to look.

Anyone here in Trafford?? Any secrets to know there!!?!

It's true that a lot of kids who pass had lots of tutoring - so it's tempting to infer that a lot of tutoring is necessary to pass. But an unknown number of those children would have passed anyway - and I also know a lot of children who had a lot of tutoring and didn't pass. And for those I doubt that even more tutoring would have made a difference. Often these will be children who are reasonably able but perhaps stronger in one area than others - they will often fall down on one paper, even if they get a sufficient overall score to have passed. I still think that if you have a naturally very able all-rounder, they only need sone practice in order to pass (when I say some practice, that could still equate to a good couple of months of work). A tutor might make the difference needed for a super selective score though. If a child is bit more borderline, then tutoring becomes more necessary - but still might not make enough difference for a pass.

pollylocketpickedapocket we are in Trafford. As I said, the schools don't do any prep so you will need to prepare your child for the exam yourself or via a tutor.

@Campervan69

pollylocketpickedapocket we are in Trafford. As I said, the schools don't do any prep so you will need to prepare your child for the exam yourself or via a tutor.

But would you say it’s super selective or not? I’m new to the area and have absolutely no clue how it all works.

My DD started in year 5 and did a year of tutor in a group setting of about 8 children. The tutor was fantastic and whilst my DD is quite bright I don’t think she would have stood a chance if she had walked into the exam without that learning and understanding of what is tested and techniques. Her state primary school does not prep for 11 plus despite most of the kids taking the test. Much depends on your child, she was very hard going when I sat with her to do her homework every weekend, ended up many times with her storming out, so I would not have wanted to tutor her myself. I am also rubbish at maths and some of the maths she practiced was well beyond my ability so glad she had tutor support. Overall I would say it’s quite a high level of commitment, both in time and energy, over a long period of prep, and also costly if tutor on board. I would think twice about putting my younger children through it. Ps we haven’t had results yet!

Most of ds’s classmates were tutored and started in year 4, I would say at least by Easter.

We didn’t use a tutor - I paid for a website that provided “quizzes” in the different areas, but mostly prepared him myself. We did some light stuff starting halfway through year 4 and then got into it properly from year 5. I was concerned about starting too early and him getting stale - this is what ended up happening to a couple of kids who’d started being tutored at the start of year 4.

We helped DD prepare during year 5. Everyone does quite a bit of prep and some seem to go overboard with tonnes of tutoring starting years before. In younger years, it’s good to make sure your child is a confident reader and knows their times tables well, quick at mental maths. In y5 polish up any weak areas and practise what a test paper might look like and working very fast to time.

Yeah I just want to echo the pp - I was told by one of the teachers at my kids school who does all tutor for the 11+, that having someone who is an accomplished and varied ready will stand them in much better stead than starting tutoring early.

We didn’t go down the official tutor route. At £50 an hour in our area way too much. We did by chance through a friend meet a 26 year old at the grammar my daughter was applying to. More a peer relationship and we paid her £15 an hour and the relationship was very flexible. My daughter did not pass through to the second round of the grammar school (2000 sit the test) however she has been selected at her primary for various competitions and the experience has given her a lot of confidence. From our experience I would highly recommend this route as it wasn’t too pressured. Good luck

Meant to say 16 year old