can someone explain how church schools are funded to me?

[hatwoman]

What I can make out about ours is that it is "voluntary aided" - which - apparently - means that the governors have to contribute to the cost of maintaining and improving the school. can someone tell me if this contribution from the governors (who are appointed by the church) is one and the same thing as the church contribution? the church contribution being the thing that entitles the church to appoint the governors and set admissions policies.

the reason I ask is that we have been asked to contribute towards the governors' contribution. If this amounts to being asked to contribute towards the church contribution then we will be refusing to pay it - as we are both wholly opposed to the idea of church schools and the idea of churches being able to set admissions etc. We feel we can't facilitate this system by funding something that is meant to come from the church. iyswim. [all a bit complicated - thanks if you're still with me]

I'd worry about how the money is going to be spent (and whether you feel that it would benefit your children) not on where it's supposed to come from.

I can't remember the diff between VA and VC but it makes me froth at the mouth...someone will be along in a minute

hallgerda - it's a pretty important principle for us. we object in principle to church schools. there's no way we are going to give our money to the church so that the church can then give it to the school thus giving it the right to appoint governors and set admissions. i'm not sure this is what are being aked - but we are suspicious.

hatwoman, if you object in principle to church schools, why is your child at one? And how did you get round the church's malign influence over admissions? Yes, I know there can be good reasons, e.g. only school in the village. If it's because it's the best school in those parts, ask yourself whether that is partly because of its funding structure - does it have more money to spend than an ordinary state school would? If your child is benefiting from that, consider the conseqences if nobody paid. And the morality of yourselves essentially freeloading off those who do pay, if you can afford to do so (yes, in an ideal world you wouldn't be put in that position, but this isn't an ideal world).

Having said all that, I think it would be entirely reasonable for you to ask the school directly about the implications of the contribution for which you are being asked, in terms of the way it affects who is exercising power over admissions etc. It does seem very odd that the school is talking about where the money is supposed to be coming from, as opposed to where it's going.

The governors' fund goes to the school and is used to cover the 15% shortfall that arises from the fact that the govt only contributes 85% of capital costs for VA schools. In most cases the church doesn't make a direct contribution to the upkeep of the school, though I suppose they might make donations towards major building projects or school fairs etc. The school will own the buildings, though, and may appoint governors.

That's for RC schools -- not sure about CoE.

Voluntary controlled schools have all thir money from LEAad are pretty much like all other LEA schools IIRC.

Voluntary Aided are the ones who onl get 85% from LEA and have to find the rest themselves but this does ean tha Goernors acan determine admissions and RE and worship in the school.

I'malso a bit puzzled as to why you would send youtr children to this school if you are so anti the church. The money you are being asked for is a contribuion I think so you could choose not to give it but then you children might be missing out.

Traditionally, this money would come from the parish but I should think thatmost children in the school attend the church so the churh doesn't have enough in its coffers.

Ah - so it's the same amount of money? Do the VA schools have more freedom over how they spend it?

you could ask about being a governor yourself if you felt so strongly to the church and the governors it would appoint

The 15% would just go into the general school fund but VA schools are obliged to keep up the buildings etc so it is quite likely that your contribution will go towards a building ot renovation fund.

VA schools boards of governors usually have one LEA appointed governor but will have parent governors who are not necessarily members of the church.

However, if you were to become a governor, you wouldn't be able to change the status of the school - i.e. there would always be more Foundation governors - who are appointed by the church.

yes the foundation governor thing may sound scary

but dh is a church governor, he is just a parent who goes to church

he is not An Old Envoy of Religious Power

at our schools (primary and secondary VA) the church gives the school a capitation fee (so much per child I think about £10 per year), the school then asks for a voluntary contribution of about £10 per family per year (not compulsory and you can pay extra if you wish) to go into governors fund to pay the 10% contribution towards capital expenditure which comes of what the LEA or government pays towards this (saving the taxpayer a bit though these contributions are gift aidable)
The child is treated the same whether or not you contribute and the improvements benefit all

but then hatwoman if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen,

"but then hatwoman if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen"
ah yes, there's the Christian spirit -
if you don't like it, piss off.
hatwoman, I absolutely see where you are coming from. it all sounds a bit opaque to me. the church should contribute a maximum of 10% towards the cpaital costs only. I have never heard of the governor's contribution, so in your position I would be asking for some detailed explanations

Hmm she's gone very quiet....similar bizarre attitude to a women I know who was 'annoyed' at seeing bibles in each of the classrooms at our RC school and said it was 'rubbing their (childrens) noses in it' oh FFS (and no, she isn't catholic....).

there is nothing opaque, the church (or rather the parishioners) raised funds to build the schools in the first place many years back rather than the taxpayer so the parish owns the buildings and the governors have a responsibility to maintain those buildings with an 85-90% grant from government.
the education authority pays for the education (books, teachers, etc)
the governors have to get the 10-15% from somewhere so they ask for contributions from both parents and church plus various fundraising events most parents are willing to pay

Er... I would imagine hatwoman has 'gone quiet' cos she's at work and only MNs in the evening. Pretty bizzare for sure

Emsmum - true! we'll see

no word on your lovely Christian attitudes I see

incogneato, the OP would appear to be taking advantage of the system whilst trying to maintain her ideological purity over opposition to church schools. All a bit Pharisaical really. I think it's unfair to have a go at unchristian attitudes over this one - I made much the same point earlier on, and I'm an atheist.

Its possible that hatwoman's children don't attend the school. Perhaps she herself attends the church and has been asked to give.

jangly, if that were the case, surely hatwoman would have responded differently to my asking whether the money would benefit her children? (See first 3 posts). And I've never heard of church attenders being asked for such contributions, but my experience of such matters isn't terribly wide...

church attenders would be asked but if hatwoman was part of the church she would be happy to contribute surely?

But she's not - obviously

Ah, so that does happen - that's interesting to know, Tommy.

I guess a lot rests on the definition of 'church'...

I think some of you are presuming Hatwoman had any choice as to which school to send her child/ren. Church schools are not provided as an 'extra' choice. The available places will be included in the LEA's numbers; in some places the church school will be the only 'local' school or school within walking distance. Hatwoman may have very strong principles about not driving to school and adding to pollution for all we know.

We have the normal weekly collections at church plus additional envelopes for things like cafod but never for the school via the church. From the school we specifically get asked once a year to contribute to the fund (it is entirely voluntary) and is used to help maintain the school and grounds to which all children benefit whatever their religion.