11 plus shall we stop?

[luzasade]

The test for Kent is in a couple of weeks.

My son just will not complete any mock tests at home so has not got an idea as of how long the test is or the timings?

Shall we give up?

It has been good doing the work for secondary as so much was not covered at school. His school is not high performing so he had so much to catch up on even basic subtraction and division and multiplication.
He has worked solidly since last September but now it just seems he does not want to do the actual test.

He gets very nervous. He also no longer wants to do any of the work.

We have not covered everything with nvr, not all the vr ?

I am torn between him just doing it anyway for experience because he did work hard or just leaving it?

He is one the eldest boys in his class but does not seem mature enough to cope.

In addition we are not living in Kent.
It does seem many others do way more work too.

Surely the key question is what he wants to do? If him not wanting to sit mocks is because he doesn't want to sit the actual 11+ tests then stop. If he still wants to sit them, then carry on. If you can persuade him to do a mock test then great but if not then you can't make him.

Both my DC are bright. DD was keen to sit 11+ and did reasonable amount of practice at home, including mock tests. DH wanted her to get tutor but she didn't want it (and neither did I - on theory that if she got in without then grammar was definitely right for her and would mean she'd not be bottom of class; but if didn't get in then comp would be fine for her). So no tutor, but she got in and it absolutely suits her. DS, who suffers from anxiety, absolutely refused to contemplate it. There was no point as he would have just worked himself up into a state. So though we did some 11+ style books with him, it was for his interest with no pressure. He's at a comp. Whilst I'm not particularly happy with the school, I also think the pressure of a grammar wouldn't have been right for him either.

School have been generally poor and yes I now know I should have moved schools!

His year 4 was good and said he was very talented etc.

But other teachers have generally been very poor, in that various staff have left so he has had temporary teachers. Lockdown was not great but we just did our own stuff. Having 3 teachers in a year is not unusual so obviously something is wrong with the school.

However, he does in year 6 have a new teacher to the school. Very inexperienced teacher apparently just out of training (I mean this may something about the school that they have a new year 6 teacher for each of the last 3 years or maybe they like to mix it up!).

I have not spoken to the teacher (due to covid I can't), as they have only been back a month.

But the teacher did speak to my son.

She got him by himself one day and said he realised the maths was too easy for him (apparently he got 100 percent on some tests they did and was the first to finish and did win some in house competition) and that she could tell he has been doing great work during lock down.

That in itself is not unusual but the teacher did give him a separate work book which was harder than the other children. She did say to my son that she had to keep to a catch up curriculum but that when my son had finished he could work on that.
So that is promising. She has given my son extra stretch like activities that I know others have not received.

So my son is pleased about that. Previously he said he has always just had to help other kids or wait around for others to finish maths.

So that in itself is good.

alimonkey you are right if he got in he would scrape in. Actually I don't think he will perform under pressure.

The test is 2 weeks away. Too late to study for it and too late to make him do mocks while attending school full

Thank you everyone.

Full time.

Good night and thank you.

Yes I would stop.

Imho it's very dependent of the child's personality and maturity how they fare in this context.

It's also sad to say a stacked game.

I know parents who've spent thousands on tutoring and as a result it's not always the brightest students who do well as there is a cohort of students who were best "drilled".

You haven't failed him.

There's plenty of time to support him and opportunity for him to do well in a non selective school.

In fact I'd say he's better served by backing off at this point and not enjoying education rather than resenting/stressing about it.

FWIW we decided against the 11plus and DS has done brilliantly in state school. Great GCSE results and now looking at a predicted 4 x A* A Levels (assuming he gets to sit his exams ).

I’m back again. Just to say due to a change of counties from a non grammar to a grammar county, we only started revising for vr and non vr about four weeks before the test. We did about two practice tests a day during that time and he had not done any tutoring before so it really was from scratch. He did tests at two schools and just missed one but got the right marks for the second. But he was 100% committed during those four weeks. Some of his cohort had trained for two years or more. None of them struggled at school. But it was his desire to get into the school that gave him the willpower to succeed. Normally he was horrific with doing homework and revising. But he loved doing vr and non vr as for him it was like doing games more than work. I used to do the tests at the same time as him then we would mark each other’s papers. I have to say it really sharpened my skills up as well! So it made it more fun for him to see if he could beat me. Which by the end he did pretty much every time. So it’s not tooooo late if you can enthuse him into doing test papers every day. But without that I really don’t think it’s possible.

How much bribery is already on the table?

I highly recommend bribery as a motivational tool because a 10yo is simply not mature enough to be sufficiently motivated by ideas of getting into the best possible secondary school or of simply succeeding for the kudos of success when the price is a lot of hard work.

A visit to a shake-away or similar luxury milkshake cafe, or some other treat, offered as something that will happen for each practice paper completed?

Having been through the 11+ process last year (not in Kent) I can honestly say that the whole thing is awful. But that awfulness is created by parents who tutor their children to extremes and it becomes a vicious circle. Others jump on the bandwagon because they think their child will be at a disadvantage if their child isn’t doing the same. What many years ago used to be spending a few months going through Bond books at home with your parents has become several years of intensive and expensive formal tutoring.

We refused to tutor, other than doing some books at home. We focussed on familiarisation of question types and exam technique and that was it. Our daughter is definitely natural grammar material but even our head said we were being very brave in not tutoring. I didn’t want her to be spending a huge chunk of her childhood studying for a test. I also didn’t want to be part of a system that preys on the concerns of parents. In the summer holidays she did a ten minute test every few days. Compare that with a friend who did three hours a day, six days a week and they didn’t have a family holiday. We deliberately kept it light and it worked as a strategy. She was totally chilled about the whole thing.

From her school cohort:

The parents of one boy pulled him out of the exam the week before as he had made himself so ill worrying about the test.

On results day, my daughter passed with flying colours.

Her friend with the super intense tutoring failed.

One boy failed because he wanted to go to the local comp with his friends so just marked the first answer box for EVERY question on the paper.

I guess what I am saying is that it’s not just the tutoring and if “enough” work has been done. What is enough for one child won’t be for another. Plus there are a whole other list of factors that come into play.

It sounds like your son is grammar material but that doesn’t mean he has to go to a grammar school. Have you been to see all your local schools and the grammar? Gut reaction - where did you and he feel most at home? Forget results and everything else. Where felt “right”? Because that’s your answer and if it’s not the grammar then absolutely stop the tutoring and focus on the school of best fit.

Don’t write off your local school either (you have made no mention of it). We had a choice of two grammars. One was a clear winner - we all loved it - but actually our local comprehensive was our second choice above the other grammar.

Also be brave. Other parents are very quick to put down the first choices of those who aren’t aiming for the very top if that’s an option.

My final advice is that private schools aren’t always better. I honestly believe you are paying for smaller class sizes, better facilities and more hours in the school day. Often the discipline is also better but that’s it. The standards of teaching will be the same. Is it worth breaking your back financially for that? Absolutely if you find that school that is best fit and feels right. Keep your mind open to all schools, including that one that parents turn their noses up at. Make it about finding the right school, not sitting the 11+. If he’s on board then you might find he is interested again.

Good luck!!!!!

My son is not chilled. I still can't get him to do a mock test this morning.

I find it quite infuriating but I don't think he wants it so we are going to leave it.

Part of me thinks doing the exam would be a good exam experience just to expose him to what an exam is like .. but if anything it may just de-motivate him further. He is bright enough to know when he has not got a question right if that makes sense?

The local secondaries, the 3 he would get into are not great and no one puts them as a first choice. One is one of the worst schools in the bottoms 10 percent.

I think the lengths others go to are just well beyond what we can do.

One friend of his does a Saturday afternoon class (which promises great results) and on Sunday does 2 hours tuition one on one which costs the parents close to 200 a week, for 2 years, leaving aside the music school which I think is another 100 a week.. plus they told me they spent over 500 pound on text books and so on.

Some of the parents I know are stressing me out me by just listening about the preparation lengths they go to.

Thanks zodlebud there are no open days due to covid, so we can't get a feel as to the schools.

There are though some online materials to go through.

I am sure some people do well at the local schools and there is an academy further out that he may have a shot at. It is a relatively new school so no exam results but locals who are in it speak highly of it.

It does seem like an awful experience.

I feel bad as I think if I had started earlier he would have been in a better place.

I do wonder if some of the other parents I speak to or rather listen to are really venting so some of the talk is all about upmanship.

Kiho thanks you, unfortunately bribery does not seem to work!

DeRigeorMortis great username!

Yes we will stop. I have been careful not to trash talk the poorly performing schools to my child but others have!

I may try for the private school as if my son did get a place it would help his confidence and may open up his mind to opportunities, even if we did not take it up.
I will speak to him about the private school as a possibility. We could try that work and if that doesn't work then we let it slide too.

I think I am sick of the entire process.
The sifting of kids at such a young age is driving me a bit crazy!

Moorfarm thank you again, he isn't fully committed. Also he has some issues visualising 3 D shapes so I think we will stop now.

zodlebud and well done to your daughter!

We will stop. I couldn't really sleep last night but it is too high- stakes for my kid.

Part of me thinks should we try?
Maybe the exam will go well?
Maybe he has done enough?
Maybe others have not due to lockdown whereas he did work solidly?

So I keep having these competing thoughts.

I do feel he is naturally bright and he has come in leaps and bounds in some of the subjects. He often says " wow why wasn't I taught this at my school!".

I can only hope that the work helps in some way for secondary.

He isn't mature enough and does have anxiety, so I think I just have to accept it and move on.

Just have a frank discussion with him and come to an agreement. Ask him what school he thinks he should go to next September. Do it over a takeaway or his favourite meal.

If you ease off on the practice at home will he still sit the exam is one route. To do that though you need to stop stressing out about the chatter from the other parents. They do it for several reasons - it has either consumed their lives and they have nothing better to talk about, they need to discuss with others to justify the large amounts of money they are spending, they are petrified their child won’t pass so are desperate to ensure they are doing the same as everyone else or it’s one upmanship.

Or he just doesn’t do it at all and (without telling him you’re going to do so) reward him for all his hard work in some small way,

We all want the very best schools for our children but if the prep to get into a school isn’t working for your family any more then it’s time to step away. It’s not failure. It’s just not the right school for your son.

OP, I'm in Kent and because of my job I know the 11+ system inside and out. If he is bright but low in confidence and doesn't like tests he may fare better in a non-selective school. The grammars near me and the children I know that go to them spend most of their time either revising for a test or being tested! Even the brightest can end up with their self-esteem on the floor as the expectations tend to be very high from day one.
You know your child best and whether or not they would cope day in and day out with the pressure. It's difficult this year as schools aren't having proper open days and you can't get a 'feel' for the schools but grammar isn't necessarily the right choice, even for a high flier.

Thank you again zodlebud

My husband is pretty sensible and he also thinks I need to lay off asking him to do any more work with him (our son can't handle the pressure).

I will have a chat with my son but in another day.

krook thank you for your insight.

I do feel he will be competing with children who are just so much more serious than him academically.

He is bright but I think there are other ways we can make sure he has enhanced learning experiences.

I think I have got too sucked in with listening to the other parents we know. It is just 11 plus exam talk all the time as they have invested so much.

My son has invested lots of time too but not at the expense of everything else.

Hi,

I some ways I am really so very very proud of him.

He goes to a school where there is bad language, behaviour, pretty out of control behaviour and kids will really severe issues ... and he really is a good and kind kid.

He does get on with people, he is lovely and quite engaging. He loves science, maths and music and art and is sporty too.

But he does have anxiety. He does get stressed and covid has stopped some of his sports.

And in reality the grammar system is about choosing the top academic kids.

He is not one of those.

Better to be a big fish in a smaller pond sometimes.

I am not sure the competitive nature of this process has been good for any of us.

Those bond books are pretty boring after a while .

If I were you I would leave it now if it's stressing him out. What will be will be.

You don't live in Kent yet want him to take the Kent test? I don't want to be rude, but have you any idea how infuriating this is for parents that live in Kent? Places are competitively sought after and them going to out of area kids is really unfair. You live in an area with a different education system. There must be suitable schools for your son. There's absolutely no need to put him through the Kent test.

Perfume over 5000 people who live outside Kent sit the Kent tests?

We have pretty poor schools.

It so extremely common to sit the 11 plus from where I Iive.

There is a whole stream of tutors and so on.

perfume we are not now going to put him in for the test now too. we did not think he will pass.

It has been stressful enough.

The entire education system is deeply unfair.

But just to add the entire 11 plus system is deeply unfair. It favours tutored children and independent schooled children, so it is about deep pockets.

Even getting into good comprehensives in London is all about the house price and whether you can get in catchment.
It is all a game.

I like to know that he is finding mock tests are boring. Ask him to just check whY the test is really. He should give his 100 percent and rest leave it. Being topper in his school ,he can give a try for different things. Rather taking mock tests let him refresh the topics. All the best to him what ever he choose to do.