So worried about school’s performance

[Worried2010000]

During lockdown, I realised my year 2 (now year 3) daughter had no knowledge of SPAG, her spelling was behind and she just didn’t seem to be learning the things her friends from other schools were learning. I was stunned as she would have been about to sit her SATS and didn’t know the basics such as verbs, nouns, adjectives etc etc. She’s a bright girl and I worked through lots of this with her and she picked it up quickly. The primary school also didn’t give any work out at all during lockdown, so I was using work from other school’s websites as a guide

FWIW I was a primary school teacher until last year (now doing a medical degree to career change), so I do know quite a bit about the national curriculum.

Anyway, today I just so happened to look on the government compare schools guide and looked at the progress guide for the school.

In reading they get -4 (well below average), in writing they get -4.9 (well below average) and in maths they also get -4.9
They have a LOW rate of SEN in the school, well below the national average. They did get a GOOD ofsted score but this was in early 2016

I’m now really worried. She’s happy at school but I could tell the school were not teaching the required things before I looked at this.

We have 2 schools that are making excellent progress near us, but the little village school she’s in are doing terribly. I phoned up these schools today and both have a place. I’m really tempted.

What would you do? Would you also be shocked by these progress schools?

*progress scores not schools

I would ask the school what was going on

To be honest, I'm not fussed about SATS, progress scores or the National Curriculum.

I go by whether I trust the teachers that have contact with my child, whether my child is happy and settled and goes into school happily, whether they have friends and are supported to be kind and considerate and to expect the same for others. I really care about whether my child is interested, engaged and learning happily and being stimulated to want to learn independently.

If you have concerns about the wider aspects then maybe consider a move, but I wouldn't be moving based on statistics that have no real impact on my child.

@essexmum777
So would you be concerned about the progress scores?

@KindKylie
I do agree, to an extent. But the fact they have literally not taught any SPaG which is compulsory means she would have completed flunked her SATS which would actually have a knock on effect in year 6 and then high school.

I have 2 older kids and both did well in SATs which meant they were in good sets as soon as they got to secondary school and it really does stand them in good stead which impacts on their happiness.

As a teacher I'd not be worried by SATs scores a little under, but being a lot under combined with seeing how little DC is studying would make me want to move them.

@ LolaSmiles
That’s my worry, because this is ALOT under. And it impacts quite a lot further on doesn’t it

My issue with that is that the system puts so much in store by testing 7 year olds.....

I absolutely refuse to get behind the idea that if my very academic dc is poorly when taking SATS, or suffers a bereavement, or witnesses a crime, or has to move house or suffers any detrimental life event in year 2 then they'll be doomed to failure forevermore. I would kind of hope that they'd participate well in class, compete decent pieces of work and be moved up a set at a later date!

I do actually really value education and my children both read well and are read to, so have a good vicab and decent spelling skills. But I refute the idea that they will only do well if they learn what a fronted adverbial is age 7. I still don't understand it and I'm a university lecturer..

As I say, I'd move a child who was unhappy or being picked on or subject to a culture of selfishness or unkindness, or where I had lost faith in the teachers or felt my child was being switched off from the joy of learning. But I wouldn't base my concerns on external statistics in the absence of any other worries.

I'd be worried its an indicator of other things. The main purpose of primary is to gain a foundation of skills which include social skills and also academic and learning skills.

I'd talk to the school and if you don't get a satisfactory answer think of moving her. School is about creating opportunities later in life. Just having a lively time is of half of it. Its not either or it should be both.

I found that my sons good sats score was a poisoned chalice. He was in good sets but now has unattainable target grades as well. Children move between sets but these target grades won't go away.
I would be concerned about the lack of SPAG but I don't think SATs are the be all and end all

@ KindKylie
I do agree, in the main, I really do. Of course if a child is ill or has a bad life event then things happen, but those results are dire. I think my issue is because they are really so bad and I was stunned at how little my 7 year old knew. I also have another daughter a year below and her reading progress has been desperately slow....until lockdown when I got her reading.

I’m really torn.

@KindKylie
but I wouldn't be moving based on statistics that have no real impact on my child.

Except that they do. A child's KS2 assessment scores influence the rest of their education quite significantly, much more so than you would think.

All children's official GCSE target grades are set using the KS2 scores as a basis. These are not your school target grades which can be changed by the school. This is true for all subjects, even those without a 'SAT' test. That means that your child's KS2 scores can end up deciding:

• your child's house/band at secondary,
• your child's form group,
• your child's 'set' in ability-based streaming,
• whether your child gets the option to sit a higher paper or not,
• whether your child is targetted for extra support to reach their target (or conversely left alone because they've already reach their low target),
• whether they get the option to study particular qualifications (such as triple Science).

And I have seen each one of these happen in several different schools.

@Worried2010000
Having such incredibly poor scores for KS1 to KS2 progress is deeply concerning and I'm genuinely shocked that they haven't had another inspection and been downgraded. It highlights some significant weaknesses in the schools teaching and learning in KS2.

How as a primary school teacher did you not check the schools performance before you signed her up? I'd be out of there like a flash. That sounds like really poor teaching. Those scores aren't a little under.

@Iamnotthe1
You have put all my concerns down far more succinctly than I could have done. This is why I’m so worried. My older children (who went to a different primary school), did brilliantly in their SATs and as a result, had a great experience from day 1 of secondary school. My year 3 daughter, who is JUST as bright as the other two, won’t have this experience unless we step in now.

I’m deeply concerned. We do work with her at home, but this cannot compete with full days at school

@ Ponchy
I know, I’m cross with myself, but we moved to the area, I saw they had a good in their ofsted and I went with it

Their last ofsted was February 2016....

As a primary governor I would be worried by those scores and would be wondering what was going wrong. It might be worth having a conversation with the head before you decide whether to move.

Move her. I have moved schools twice with mine for similar reasons. If it was a nursery not fulfilling what they should be doing everyone would tell you to move.

I wouldn’t be so worried by the official figures as such, though they aren’t great, more your direct personal experience with your own child.
To have no idea about any of those things, given that it was March when lockdown happened, is awful.

My ds is the same year group, and summer born so I have always paid attention to his progress as it was drilled into me by my teacher dm that he might struggle. I got curriculum sheets from Twinkl at the start of lockdown just to keep us busy. Yes there were gaps in his knowledge in spag, maths etc but they were small and would easily have been covered before the sats. He is also bright and eager to learn, so we worked through the core curriculum and he went back to school way ahead. His new teacher has already called me having done various tests in school to say how well he’s done and what her next steps will be to keep him going. That is what a Good school does, IMO. One week back and they’ve already sussed what each child needs next.

If you want to keep your dd at that school due to friendships then by all means contact the teacher and ask what steps they have in place now. If you aren’t happy about their answer then I would move sooner than later. Do you know anyone with children at the other possible schools to ask what they did during lockdown, how kids are doing etc? Given the situation currently has no measure to look at, personal experience matters.

What are their Y6 SATs results like?

Maybe they decided to ramp up their progress scores by not prepping at all for Y2 SATS then going hell for leather in KS2. It's gaming, but schools do it.

If it's only grammar terminology missing I'd not worry about it too much. My DS's prep school don't drill terminology the way we do in state now, but he can still write beautifully. TBF, when they brought in the SPaG paper an awful lot of adults didn't know the terminology. How are her reading, maths and composition skills?

@reefedsail
What are their Y6 SATs results like?

Maybe they decided to ramp up their progress scores by not prepping at all for Y2 SATS then going hell for leather in KS2. It's gaming, but schools do it.

Primary school progress scores are KS1 to KS2, not Rec to KS1. These scores mean that, at this school, the children make significantly less progress than the average child in the country.

Indeed, so if a school keeps their Y2 scores artificially low, then they do very well in Y6, progress looks amazing. Maybe OP's DD hasn't been prepped for Y2 SATs because the school need to up their progress scores pronto, so they are really not that bothered about stellar scores in Y2.

@reefedsail

It's possible that they are trying to game the system so they can post better progress scores in four years. However, that scenario is no better because that's not dealing with the poor teaching and learning in KS2 that has led to progress scores of -4 or more in all areas. It's just masking it.

I’m really surprised you didn’t check all the info before your daughter joined.

If the other schools perform much better, I’d be moving her.

@JoJoSM2
Sadly I just checked ofsted... I applied for one of the better schools as first choice but there was no place so I got my second place