Do you still run your 7-8 year olds DSs life for him?

[legacy]

'Cos I do, but DH thinks I shouldn't.

He's just gone into Year 3 at juniors, and there has been an explosion of new stuff for him to cope with. Even I can't keep on top of it all .

To try to help I've put up a big weekly timetable in the kitchen with what he (& we)needs to remember each day, and what homework needs to be done each night.
But he doesn't remember to look at it unless I remind him, and make him sit down to do homework etc.

DH & I are having massive disagreements about this (we share the after school child care as we both work). DH says it's all DSs responsibility, and he has to remember to pack his bag/ learn his spellings/ practice his guitar etc.

I'm arguing that as parents we have a responsibility to set up and enforce routines that will get DS into good habits, but that at the moment we still have to accept responsibility to ensure stuff happens.

I can't believe this is causing so much stress in our house . This morning DH was shouting at DS as they left the house because he hadn't learnt his tables for a test today, and I was shouting at DH because he didn't prompt DS yesterday to check what he needed to do for homework.

I can't believe DH is being such a prat over this - he just doesn't see that he's undermining DSs confidence and relationship with him?

What's reasonable to expect a 7-8 year old to do? Do yours pack their own school bags, get their own snack, collect reading books froma round the house, practice their X tables and spelling voluntarily ...
No, I thought not...

your exactly right. your dh is expecting way to much. My ds is 10yrs now and only just starting to organise himself better. Spellings were not copied out last night for example but I never moaned at him as like you quoted I had forgotten also. We are all only human and boys are not the best organisers lol. He will get there but your dh shouting at him will probably make him more scatty and flustered. You'll have to ask MIL what dh was like at that age and re-remind him!!!!!!!

It does depend on the child. DS#1 at 8? Not a hope. DD at 8, yes to a great extent. She takes charge of most things - I just need to do a final check when she walks out the door.

DH is exactly the same re DS#1 though - he thinks , and has done for several years, that DS#1 should sink or swim. I don't.

I've been training dd1 to be independant since she started school obviously helping her out as and when she needed it, over the years i have needed to help less and less now she has just gone into year 4 and is just 8, she does everything herself in the mornings, from bathing, dressing, doing her hair, getting her bag and packing her lunch (if she forgets/ doesnt have time to do lunch then i happily pay for school dinners that day) I do remind her to take her swimming kit on the right day and help with homework, remind her to do homework and remind her to read. I am proud she is so capable of managing to get herself ready for school on time by herself. Of course i am here to help if she needs me for eg to help look for shoes/ coat but these days that is very rare.

This is sort of stating the obvious, of course, but there is a middle way between Sinking or Swimming - which is, of course, Using Armbands. Represented in this instance by the raft of things I do to encourage ds's organisational & self-help skills - from having a very steady settled morning routine (pretty much the same every day), to timing charts & lists & updates on how many minutes we have left before we need to go out the door, & "priming" (ie a reminder before the reminder is needed - eg "when you go to wash, what are you going to do first?" (the required answer is "My teeth" and seriously I have to go through that loop every morning)).

It is a bit dull & gruelling to have to do all the above (sometimes it would be easier to do it all for ds) - but if a child doesn't have instinctive organisational skills it is the only fair way to go. I think.

OrmIrian - I'm glad it's not just my DH who is like this then (I think?).

I think some of it may be a product of his upbringing anyway - he went off to a posh prep school 15 miles away from the age of 11, and is still sometimes bitter about it now (he had to go to school on Saturday etc).

To be honest I think DS1 is doing remarkably well so far, but I'm worried because he does look exhausted by the end of the week...

Bink - agree with you completely! It's really hard when there's more than one person sharing the childcare and routines.
To be honest DH is acting like a stroppy 8 yera old who doesn't want to do his homework!
And I'm saying, "Do you have a better suggestion? (other than shouting at DS all the time...) No? Then get on with it..."

And then he wonders why his relationship with DS1 suffers/

I also wonder if it's a father-son thing. He hates it when he makes DD cry - gets really upset. But when DS#1 cries he tells him to stop and gets more cross. Maybe there's an element of competition or unconscious 'toughening up' going on. Whatever it is it winds me up and helps not a jot. DS#1 is, to put it bluntly, a lazy litle s*d but responds much better to being steered and organised than being yelled at and backed into a corner.

I know exactly how you feel - I have a DS of 7 who has just started Juniors and they do expect much more of them.

We are OK getting out of the house as I have some control over it but I always feel like I am having to remind him of even basic things like pick up his bag! Mind you I nearly made us late this morning as I forgot to write in his homelink book so I need some training too.

They have a huge amount to remember when they get into school but I have noticed that they have a little checklist of things they need to do - hang up their bags & coats, put their lunchboxes on the trolley, hand in their homework book etc. I think that even then DS misses some of these out too. He hasn't changed his reading book for days.

Coming out of school is worse as he always forgets something, has his backpack undone, carrying his lunch box, pencil case, letters etc. Chances are he has forgotten his coat or hat or water bottle. I was thinking of doing him a checklist for coming out of school but don't know where to put it and how to make him look which is a bit of a problem.

I do think your DH is being a bit harsh legacy. It takes a long time to remember all this stuff and get a routine, it doesn't happen over night. Mind you I end up sounding like a drill instructor shouting instructions which gets a bit wearing.

DS1 (just 9) has just gone into Y5 and the school has given us a timetable with what is required on which days.

So I've stuck that up on the fridge and I remind him to look at it every evening and every morning.

So today it was "Indoor PE kit" which we both agreed was already in school.

I do still make him do his spellings/homework/trumpet practice, otherwise it would never get done. But I am encouraging him to think about when to do it.

Surely it's a team effort & your DH is part if that team he has to realise. Your poor DC has only been a junior for a month & it's a big deal being a junior,so much more is expected of them & they can't do it all overnight.

Your strategies sound like they are supportive & encouraging at the same time.

IMVHO your DH is being unrealistic & you can tell him the MN mafia said so!!

So there.... ner.....

(insert very mature sticky out tongue emoticon here)

I have a chronically dreamy disorganised 7yo, and a just 6yo who's totally capable of remembering and organising. And a 3yo who's well on the way. My 7yo is the worst at getting dressed and sorted in the mornings.

But now she's in yr 3 we are working quite hard on it, trying to make her take more responsibility. In practice this means she's missing school clubs and activities because she loses the permission forms or doesn't return them. And she hasn't changed a reading or library book for about 5 months at school now it's left to her. I'm hoping that eventually making it her responsibility will mutate into her actually remembering.

so in a sense I do agree with the OP's Dh. At this age they can start learning or at least deal with the consequences.

7/8 too young to be able to sort out own routines, colelct stuff, get food, etc. Tell your dh that's why your ds has parents

Bink, we have a four year old who barks orders like a Sergeant Major...NOT my pinafore today, it's PE...etc. That's the girl.
Ds drifts around the house like an amiable Mysteron in a Dobby-mourning world of his own currently. He has been known to wander out of the loo naked from the waist down without realising it.
However, I will say in his defence that he is good about doing his homework.
Legacy, I hope we've all given your dh food for thought. This really is too young to be doing more than a gradual process of fostering independence and self-reliance

I am still running my 20 year old DS!'s life for him .
Agree that you can not reasonably expect a 7 or 8 year old to remember everything - their brains just aren't equipped to cope with that sort of organisational requirement. By all means encourage taking responsibility for e.g. the PE kit, but he's still going to need reminding for a while yet.

god, I didn't do stuff like that until I was about 10 or 11 - and really I wish my parents had enforced more homework and music practice on me! left to my own devices, I lazed about reading books, permenantly. It's on of the luxeries of being a child, isn't it?

Marina sometimes your posts give me a premonition of where we will be in a year's time. I cannot imagine DS will have given up his dreamy ways, and yes he has done the leaving his pants behind in the toilet thing, and left them on under his swimming trunks, and tried to put them on on top his pjs because he is also reading Horrid Henry and..... DD bosses him around all the time, and I do think that it is possible that going to school at last will go to her head rather.

legacy , did your dh have to do all these things from a young age? Maybe he was brought up differently to you and that's where he is getting his ideas from? I know in ds's class (year4)there are quite a few dc who have to get themselves up, make own snack box up and get themselves to school because the parents just aren't there to do it, they both work. I knew a family where the dad was a cook in a hospital so left the house at 5am and the mum delivered early morning newspapers so she also left at 5am and her 2 boys were still in bed and alone in the house, when she got back at 8am her 5 and 6 year olds had got up, dressed and had breakfast and were ready to be sent to school. I couldn't imagine mine doing that but it's because they don't have to IYSWIM.

TBH I still haven't learned to remember everything to take to work. Some days I'll remember to take my security pass but leave my diary at home, other days I'll remember my purse but forget my lunch.

Some people are good at organising, some aren't. Allowing your child to miss clubs, get into trouble for missing homework etc., doesn't teach them how to be more organised, it just teaches them that sometimes life's a bitch.

I used to be of the harsh "teach 'em young" school, but I look at my DS (8) who is utterly hopeless at organising himself, and it's not because I didn't give him plenty of responsibility from the start. Maybe it's because I gave him too much. Maybe it makes no difference. But he can't remember stuff, I suspect he takes after me, while DD (5) is uber-organised and tells me not to interfere in her arrangements.

Meant to say yes your DH is being an arse. TBH he sounds like he's taking the same tack as my DS's school - pretend he's able to organise himself so that he doesn't have to trouble himself about it. Lazy.

Legacy I think DH is expecting too much too soon.
I was in a funny way glad to see that so many other MNs have had the same experience as me when their kids have just started in Juniors. I think it's a huge jump for them and they are expected to be able to do so much more. So a little guidance/help at home is essential. My DS has a split class this year so has 2 new teachers both of whom are new to the school. It is all rather a lot for him and his confidence has plummetted. Am keeping a eye on him and like some of the other Mums are trying to keep After School activities to a minimum!
After all 7 is still little really.

DD has also just started Reception. She loves it but it is still very tiring for her.

Good Luck Legacy, you know you are the voice of reason!

DS is not there yet (2 years to go) but I have no expectations that he will remember these things by himself at 7. I can see DH expecting it, though - I think he secretly already thinks DS should be the one to remember swimming kit, etc.

However I have the ultimate weapon - when DH had to do a week of school/nursery runs by himself, he asked for a list - so if he can't remember there is no way that he could expect a 7yo to...

I think it needs to be a gradual process - last week I said to DS "it's your job to remember to bring your wellies home from school today because you need them for riding" - and he duly shot out of the door that afternoon with wellies in hand. I think I managed to disguise my surprise