Kent test

[Jigglypuff2]

Just wondering what others think.

Kent test now loved to mid October.

I think that is trying to make it fairer and welcome the delay.

Just wondering what others think?

Selfishly I wish it had stayed in September. DS has got plenty of time to do 11+ practice over the summer holidays and I'd rather he took it at the beginning of term while that revision is fresh in his mind, before he gets back into school work. I also just want it over and done with at the start of the school year - that seemed to work really well with DC1. I'm also worried that Covid is more likely to have started circulating more widely in schools by mid October, so there may well be lots of children off school ill or self isolating by then who won't be able to take the test.

On the flip side, I recognise that DS is lucky to have had parents able to support him through homeschooling during lockdown and now able to support him to do some 11+ prep over the summer. Kids who will have done very little between March and September would be at a disadvantage and I can see that a delay is fairer for them.

I agree with the move

Yes on the 11 plus I don't know how they will deal with covid.

What happens if your child is ill during covid, that seems unfair to that child?

Also what happens if your child is not ill but has to self isolate?

What happens to school choices if you are out of area and your council does not allow kore than 3 school choices ..

Brilliant news as it will stop all the Kent children using the Bucks test as a practice run (they both use GL). In previous years the Bucks test is held a day or two before the Kent one so the perfect free opportunity to do an extra practice in exam conditions.

For entrance this September, hundreds of children from Kent sat the paper. This artificially skews the data with children passing who never have any intention of taking a place. Which leads to more Bucks children who fail marginally (and would have passed if those children using it as a practice hadn’t been included in the data) having to go through selection review.

Sorry, having a moan as this is a very real problem for Bucks children. Bucks are running it during October half term and the first week of November. Will be interesting to see how many Kent (and Surrey) children sit it this year as a result. Hopefully it will work in favour of the Bucks children.

But yes, I do think it’s a good idea to push the dates back to give the untutored children a better chance. Let’s be honest though, it just gives those children with more motivated parents and tutors an even greater advantage than before.

Not knowing the result before the submission deadline might deter some eleven plus tourism which has the effect of increasing the pass grade from out of county applicants when the chances of them attending a school is small. There is though the risk of classes being quarantined.

I agree on the potential for minimising 11+ tourists too if you have to put your choices in before knowing the result. Will be very interesting to see what happens.

Can you explain what you mean by 11 plus tourism.

Do you mean people from out of county knowing their results and putting down the grammar school that they will get into and quickly moving into the area? Is that what you mean ? I didn't think people still could do that kind of move.

I am out of a grammar area but am getting my child to try.

I don't expect a pass as out of area is rightly a very high mark but I figure it will help if we are mad enough to try for a private school later and also this is good learning experience for us.

I was half expecting that they would not allow children out of area to sit and places would go to local children.

Determined parents can usually find a way. One option for 11+ tourists is to get them to take multiple tests and then the 'relationship breaks down' and one parent moves into the area before the deadline. Or if they are renting anyway it is easy to move.

Other parents just put them in for 11 plus exams as practice for other grammar schools or for the experience for independents. There are far more out of county applicants than could ever take up the places. About half the OOC children pass the test, but only 10% of those will take an out of county place in a grammar school. The pass rate for in county applicants is lower but many of them will take a place.

Why is this an issue? Firstly it costs money to run the tests, especially for OOC test centres which could be used to fund schools. Secondly in the current climate gathering large numbers of children from many different schools is likely to spread infections. Thirdly as the OOC cohort are likely to be aiming for the highest marks so will drive up the overall pass rate. The pass rate is based on the children taking the test. An OOC child might have little or no intention of taking a place in one of the county grammar schools, or is clever but not super selective clever but because they scored high, the lower pass threshold is higher which means that a child who lives next door to the school and fails on one of the parts of the tests doesn't get a space whereas if it was just those intending to use a space then the pass mark would have been lower and they might have passed.

This year of course it will be even more unfair if that child is a child of two parents who have been working full time trying to home school with a few worksheets from their state school compared to someone who has been having live lessons and went back to a private school in June.

Sitting tests with little chance of gaining a place will impact on other children for whom that school is their nearest one.

Actually when you put it like that it is not fair for the applicants who live in the area.

I thought this year they may just stop out of area applicants.

I am going to have a think.

I will see if my child can get closer to the mark needed in mocks but if not (and that is a more realistic outcome), then I will withdraw from Kent.

I am all for out of catchment applicants if they live close enough to still realistically take a place. For example, in some of the Herts villages on the Bucks border, a grammar school is actually their closest school. Many children apply and do get a place as a result.

The last sitting of the Bucks 11+, over 1,000 children sat it who were registered at an address which was so far away from any Bucks grammar school that they would never get a place. 1,000 children!!!!

Some people do move in the two week window between results and 31st October once they know the results. The council is wise to this though and places are taken away each year because they are seen as fraudulent. Some of the Bucks grammars now have admissions criteria which say you needed to have lived at your address for two years.

I know it’s not a perfect system, but local children are being denied places at local schools just so others can have an extra practice. It just feels wrong.

Sorry, OP. Kind of derailed your thread slightly, but I do think it’s a good thing due to the above points.

thekeep I guess it is just about considering the chances of actually taking up a space. If you are in Sussex and fairly close to the border then the new Sevenoaks annex might change the availability of places for boys both going to Sevenoaks and to the Tunbridge Wells site.

Skinners is a small catchment unless there is a sibling there already and Judd needs high marks. It might be worth asking on eleveplusexams.co.uk to assess the likelihood of getting a place.

As Zodlebud says it is just about being realistic in the decision to sit the test. Also I feel for the children having to travel long distances for a school which might not be massively better than their local school once the bias of the intake is considered. Also sometimes a child who is more borderline does better being the top of a comprehensive school rather than in a competitive grammar.

I haven't heard of Kent children travelling to Bucks that is crazy there are lots of mock tests nearer to home. I wonder whether it is actually the same GL test in which case it would be unfair not only for Bucks dc but also for most Kent children who haven't seen it before test day.

Hi I am near some Kent grammars via train but in reality I don't think my son can get a place there.

I appreciate the comments and apologies for hi jacking the thread.

It is funny I was speaking to an acquaintance who I bumped into at the park and she was planning to get her child and her husband to live in Kent but commute back to the primary school. She was saying they had family in Kent and they were wanting the child to get to know elderly relatives better but she was really annoyed about the delay to the Kent test...

So although for all outside appearances she appears happily married ( I don't know her well) I wondered after this thread if they must be planning a temporary separation but the delay in testing has put a spanner in the works..

I did not think they actually kicked children out of schools - there were parents were I live who were found to be fraudulent at primary level but the decision was made to keep child at school as it was not the kid's fault they had fraudulent parents..

planning to get her child and her husband to live in Kent but commute back to the primary school.

Highly likely to be fraudulent.

Quite a few East Sussex kids take the Kent test. The options are better for girls with both TOGS and Weald taking Sussex girls but with the change in selection criteria, Sussex boys that I know in last years Year 7 only being offered Tunbridge Wells Boys.

Wow @Zodlebud I had now idea that happened with the Bucks test! I live in Bucks and close to the local grammar. Hopefully the move in date will deter those who are using it as a practice.

Maybe the pass rate will be lower this year as so many children have been out of school. I think unfortunately the test will be even more unfair than ever as you’ll have the private schools who will have done hours of online zoom classes versus the state schools where quite often the online provision has been poor.