Oversubscribed Catholic primary school

[GlobalTrotter]

Hi,
Originally neither me no my DH are from the UK, we have different background, languages and religious origins. DH is unbelieving Jew, I’m unbelieving Eastern Christian. We both believe in Good or Universe in general, without practicing any specific religious.

We have 24 weeks old baby, and we are living literally next door to one of the best (academically) primary school in London, it’s Roman Catholic.

Now we are considering to baptise our baby as a Catholic and our close friend, who is really practicing Catholic many years, will be his god Mather.

Would be a problem for us

1. Receive the place without attending the church? Usually school is oversubscribed of course, from 3 years up to 11 it’s only 280 pupils.
2. Or If only me, as a christian originally, would attend the church with a child let’s say once a month?
3. Would it be relationship with school or other parents difficult in our case?

I asked myself do I really wish my child to believe? I found it as an additional piece and feeling safe in a childhood. I had not it in my childhood and it was hard and scare to knew first time that my parents will die, ect.
The secondary school I would consider non religious independent school. So it will be more personal choice for child at that time.

My oldest son was baptized as eastern Christian, and was visiting church regularly up to ten years old with his father’s family. After he was in non religious primary and after in CoEf boarding school. When he was 15yo he choose to be a Christian Buddhist, where he sees Buddhism as philosophy, and continuing like this already five years.

Thank you all in advance for advices and opinions.

In this case, sorry, I do not see unfairness to other kids attending weekly.

You said this in response to someone pointing out it's unfair to take a place from a child in a practicing Catholic family.

That is the unfairness. If your child attends church once a week and has a relationship with their godmother who is Catholic, that's hardly the same as a child who attends church once a week but has practicing Catholic parents to whom Catholicism is a huge part of their family identity. Surely you can see that?

I too am a non believer and I can see your conundrum as we all want the best for our kids. However it's silly to pretend it wouldn't be reasonable for a Catholic family to feel gutted their child missed out on a place because of someone doing what you're considering doing.

Even those of us who understand your thought process, who might even do the same, can surely see that it is rather cheating the system to get ahead? Again, I understand your reasoning but I think it's odd not to acknowledge that you're working the system and also if I'm honest using your godmum a little bit as presumably you've never shown interest in engaging in her religion until it might help your daughter get into a good school.

I think you are a bit mad. There are plenty of good schools in London and I can't believe that it's the only school within 30 mins of you. However, if you are going to get the certificate signed I suspect you will need to attend church not just your daughter otherwise it will look like you are just doing for a school place. Though why the church should care I don't know. In this case they are gaining a new member of the congregation who would otherwise be unlikely to become a catholic.

Would you be happy for your child to be baptised catholic if you weren't trying to get her into the school?
If not then don't do it just to get her into the school.
It's seems you want to just 'pretend' to be a catholic. It's quite offensive and also unfair to other parents who want their children to be genuinely be brought up in the catholic faith.

I do think you are missing my point you would ask your daughter to assume a religious identity that no one else in her family has or will be able to relate to all they will be able to do is relate in the abstract that will really affect her sense of belonging.

My personal view, as a catholic, is that this is morally wrong. Sorry to be so blunt.

During a Baptism you make a promise to raise the child in the Catholic faith, those attending make a promise to support you and the Catholic schools are part of that support for you to bring your child up in the Catholic faith, you have this the wrong way around you seem to think you'll be there to support your child being raised Catholic by others
For instance if your daughter will be at to attend weekly why will you only be attending Mass once a month.

@Didkdt

I do think you are missing my point you would ask your daughter to assume a religious identity that no one else in her family has or will be able to relate to all they will be able to do is relate in the abstract that will really affect her sense of belonging.

Sense of belonging... sounds nostalgic for me. I do not have sense of belonging to my homeland already, because I’m living here. For my son this question is much stronger - he grow up here, but he is not belonging none of the coutures fully. Peo We don’t have any relatives here. From my DH side relatives are in the other, different countries. I think faith could help child to feel more safe.

@ElsieBobo

My personal view, as a catholic, is that this is morally wrong. Sorry to be so blunt.

Thank you for your blunt. I’m not sarcastic.

The Certificate of Catholic Practise is something that the local Priest needs to fill out, that explicitly says

"I hereby certify that this child and his/her family are known to me and, to the best of my knowledge and belief, the child is from a practising Catholic family. ".

You are not. I think you will struggle to persuade a Priest to sign that. If the school is in such demand that it is sufficiently oversubscribed that it never goes past Cat 3, there is no reason to believe he would be prepared to bend the rules for you.

oh and from the guide to clergy -

"For the purposes of the Certificate of Catholic Practice, a family is normally to be regarded as a practising Catholic family where at least one parent is a practising Catholic and is doing his or her best to hand on the faith to his or her children."

@ElsieBobo

My personal view, as a catholic, is that this is morally wrong. Sorry to be so blunt.

I agree, and I'm not catholic.

In my opinion OP is being utterly hypocritical.

But you are not baptising your child catholic so they feel safe by having faith in this religion. You are blatantly doing it to get them into the local school.
It is completely selfish and offensive to true catholic believers.

But you are not baptising your child catholic so they feel safe by having faith in this religion. You are blatantly doing it to get them into the local school.
It is completely selfish and offensive to true catholic believers.

They'd feel safer belonging to something you belong to and believe in and follow and in your family that seems to be something unstructured and that's fine but to have everyone else in her life leading her, guiding her and forming her in one direction but everyone her family saying
"we decided that for you but meh that's not for me" is unfair to her.
There is no belonging there there's just leaving her with nothing to hook on to.

I am an atheist. I believe it is important to support people and be respectful towards their religious beliefs. On this basis I think you are being high handed and wrong. You are being disrespectful to those that have that faith.

OP you have probably already left it too late. Two of my children went to a catholic school and one of the strict conditions was that the children had to be baptised as catholic within ten weeks of birth. Then there are so many other hoops to jump through, and rightly so as the school provided a specific and unique education.

Honestly I would just recommend putting the idea completely out of your head.

For me it is not a question of pretending, I hate to lie, it’s a question of acceptance

You will be lying. When a parent has a child baptised they say they believe in God and the church and promise to bring up the child in the faith.

I honestly find it awful that people will consider being deceitful like this just for a primary school place.

We are practicing Catholics. Our child goes to the Catholic primary school linked to our church. Whilst not all the children in the school are Catholic or indeed Christian, the majority are. Religious aspects are throughout the day, it is of course very important. Your reasons for wanting this place are understandable but lying to get a place is wrong. If you apply as you are, you may get a place but I feel you should consider other options. I'd be very surprised if there are no other good schools within easy reach.

My children attend a catholic school. We are not religious, none of the household are baptised at all. My children are definatly not left out at all, there is a very diverse mix of people. My eldest has expressed interest in becoming catholic so we've been finding out about it and helping him explore his options (sponsors, god parents etc) Why anyone would think it an option to lie is beyond me

As a born Catholic, the Catholic church is actually not that simple to get into. They require a fair bit of time and effort to get that water on your head if the parents aren't catholic, then you'll be required to attend the Parish regularly in the year leading up to administration to be considered catholic enough. It's up to you if you want to do that. It's the reason I take my kids to church a handful of times a year despite being spiritually agnostic. Catholic church is hard work.

@2020Rainbow

But you are not baptising your child catholic so they feel safe by having faith in this religion. You are blatantly doing it to get them into the local school. It is completely selfish and offensive to true catholic believers.

This. And I say that as a staunch atheist.

Is it Catholic school or Catholic ethos? If it is in MH you might get away without the baptism.

They WILL be taught creationism

No they will not. The Catholic church rejects creationism. Also, schools are prohibited from teaching creationism as fact.

Catholics believe that God created everything, as do other Christian denominations. However, the Catholic church does not believe that the first books of Genesis are a literal scientific and historic description of the beginning of the world.

I'm sure there are some individual Catholics who are creationists but that is not the position of the Catholic church.

Agree with prh47bridge re creationism. That is not what Catholic church teaches.

A PP said, "There are no I Pads or laptops given out at Catholic schools and play facilities are limited to skipping ropes and balls."...please tell me you're not serious! I have experience of several Catholic schools, and of course they have laptops, tablets, and all manner of modern technology!!

There are no I Pads or laptops given out at Catholic schools and play facilities are limited to skipping ropes and balls

What? You'd better tell all the Catholic schools I know that they are Catholicing all wrong The primary playground has 5-6 sheds full of scooters and other stuff, and trim trails and climbing walls - every classroom has a stack of Chromebooks. Every child in the secondary has an ipad.