Year 2 has been kept in a year 2/3 class ..need advice please

[Geetu]

My year 2 in currently in a year 2/3 class, for the next year (sept) the headteacher has stated that he will not move into the yr3/4 class. He will remain in the yr2/3 class as a year 3 child. I have asked based on what assessment, have they made this decision.
The HT stated that he is not socially ready to move into the other class. My worry is will this be a positive or negative impact on my son.
Is it possible for the teacher to teach a class of 28 children, two different KS groups.

Please advice needed

Thanks.

Every single class has to be differentiated for the pupils in it regardless of whether it is a single year class or if it has two or more classes in it. I recently taught a P3,4,5 class and it was absolutely no more difficult than a single year class.

What do you need advice on? Presumably some kids need to be in the 3/2 class so why not yours?

And I think you need to change the language about him being kept behind. He isn’t, he’s still progressing into y3.

We have split year groups in our school and every year there is some parent bellyaching that their kid is being “kept behind”. The only ones thinking that their child is being kept behind is the parent - they will still be a (in this case) Y3 child doing Y3 work. The OP needs to address the language she’s using to talk to her child about it.

And fundamentally, if you’re not happy with the professional judgement of the school, or the policy they have in place for deciding mixed class splits, then you need to move. I doubt you’ll have much luck asking for the split to be changed because if the school change for one parent then they unleash the baying mob who will say “ but you did it for so and so!”

Every year at this time, across all year groups, parents get upset about where their child has been placed in a composite class.

Every year, it’s fine, and parents realise they didn’t need to worry so much.

Honestly, it’s not a big deal but it could well be a positive thing. Children thrive in mixed year group classes all the time. If your son feels like his work isn’t good enough then ask him what he thinks he should do to improve it and help him do that, but also let him know that not everyone can be top of the class because that’s just the way it works.

Mine have both been in mixed year groups and did brilliantly. They were both in p6 in a p6/5 class. With my eldest the school actually put a group of the most able p6 kids who worked well together into the class and with the youngest was because it was a smaller school and all mixed classes (different schools for reasons I won’t bore you with).

Teachers are more than experienced at teaching across different levels, even within the same year group kids work at different levels. The other advantage up here in Scotland anyway is mixed year groups have smaller class sizes.

You weren't worried about the teacher coping with teaching across the key stages when he was a year 2 pupil in a 2/3 class but now that he's going to be a year 3 pupil in a 2/3 class, it's a huge concern.

That makes absolutely no sense.

My children went to a small village school with basically only 2 classes - R/1/2 in one room and all of KS2 in the other room, though for some lessons years 3 and 4 worked together and years 5 and 6 were combined. There were some lessons done as one class though, and some individual children moved between the sub groups for specific subjects. I never thought this was a problem, in fact I would say there were definite advantages. The KS2 class of course ranged from just turned 7 year olds to 11 year olds and included children with additional needs as well as some very bright pupils who eventually went on to read medicine, veterinary medicine, law etc at Oxbridge and RG Universities. There was a wide range of pupils but I never felt that the teachers were unable to meet my children's needs and nor to my knowledge, did any of the other parents (and we all knew each other fairly well.) Teachers who are used to this kind of set up are good at teaching to different levels simultaneously.
Your school's split is, admittedly, a bit unusual, but as others have said, if it worked ok this year, why wouldn't it work next year? If your DS was the only pupil not moving then I would understand your concern, but that presumably isn't the case. The year 3s will be doing year 3 work whichever class they are in. Remember that the staff know all the children and I imagine they will be trying, as far as possible,
to create groups that are going to be well matched so that each child is in the best learning environment for them. Your son may be perfectly able academically but if he is a bit less mature socially then he may not flourish in the older group. He isn't being kept behind or held back, he is being placed in the group that the teacher feels will meet his needs best, with, by the sounds of things, plenty of other year 3s. I'm sure your son will be fine - try not to worry and do try to avoid projecting your feelings as even small children pick up on these things quite easily.

It doesn’t make sense to me

They said he wasn’t mature enough socially so they are keeping him with younger children rather than mixing with older ones? Surely he would benefit from the older
group?

I dislike mixed classes as each year group so different things, cycling, trips away, year 6 transition and this leave the rest of the class floating - as the teacher plans for the group.

Example 15 kids cycling leaves 15 kids in the class and the teacher doesn’t want to start x topic as the others will need to catch up on return.

Or year 6s go to senior school, leaving the y5s to have fun days

Everyone misses out.

I am so embarrassed for you that you actually recorded your child and played it for the HT 🤣

It sounds perfectly reasonable to me that your child stay where he is and just moves up a level. I really don't see the issue and, going by you actions so far, suspect it is YOUR issue. You are putting a stigma where there really isn't one.

I think you’re getting an unnecessarily hard time on here OP. Mixed classes are for the convenience of schools and the government who funds them. Why would it be in a child’s best interest to be in a class with children a whole year younger than older than them?
Children know if they’re in the top, middle or bottom group whether you call it that or you call them the circles, squares or triangles. Naturally the school is going to put the less socially or academically advanced children in the younger class. I think it’s a shame for your boy and if I was you I would make sure I worked with him to improve as much as possible as this will boost his self esteem,

They are not always for the convenience of schools - some schools choose them.

They don't suit all children, but are good for many.

If only 5 children from the class move into the Year 3/4 class, then it sounds like the majority with stay where they are, along with OP's son. Chances are that they have chosen those 5 for various reasons other than academic ability (whether age, social skills, friendships, etc). Even if it was for academic reasons, if the OP or her son are that bothered that he is not in the top 5 in the class, then some work needs to be done on his self esteem. He doesn't have to be in the top 5 to be doing good work! OP, you sound like you want him to be one of the 5 selected ones - would you want him to leave the majority of his age group? Does he seem to you like one of the most academically and socially advanced? Is he one of the oldest? Why would you have chosen him to move classes over the others, and what do you think the teachers have missed, given that they know all the children well? If he's not showing his ability at school, then maybe that is something to work on.

But chances are, it's not done according to ability anyway, or at least not as the main or only criterion.

Antipodean - you are wrong. There’s such a range of abilities/ background in a class that IME a broader age range can actually make it easier to group them, and can allow weaker ones a chance to be the oldest, most sensible in a class rather than always being the youngest /weakest. And just as importantly gives the ‘always best’ kids a chance to not always be too. Yes 5/6 is more of a problem- but that’s because of the pressure of SATs for y6, y5 can get a bit neglected.

Why would it be in a child’s best interest to be in a class with children a whole year younger than older than them?

Even in a 'normal' single age group class, there can be a 364 (365 in the upcoming Reception intake) day difference in age between the oldest and youngest child and as little as 1 day difference between the youngest / oldest and the oldest / youngest in the year below / above.

I must admit that I am curious as to the actual year group size, as the usual organisation is R / 1+2 / 3+4 / 5+6, but I have a personal fascination for schools where the PAN is a much less workable number than a multiple of 15 (77 and 78 in alternate years, anyone? But that one is a Junior school).

I suppose one issue would be, if the child really doesn't get on with the particular teacher, but if things are done from that point of view, That's lovely, darling - you've got nice Ms X for another year would be one way I'd be encouraging my DC.

My daughters infant school was like this.
It was so damaging. A lot of children at the juniors (some actually turned out to be the academically high flyers) left that infants with terrible self esteem issues that the juniors had to unpick.
Even now 4 years later they need reassurance.
Honestly, I wish I’d kicked up more of a fuss about what it was doing to the kids. But I didn’t want to be “that parent”. We were lucky that it was a separate juniors and the change absolutely made her fly.

Don’t leave it, those messages are powerful and ingrained at this age.

I worried about this for my three 20 years ago ... all comes out in the wash, work is generally differentiated. It was never an issue.

Naturally the school is going to put the less socially or academically advanced children in the younger class.

Nope. In my elder son’s school it was the higher achieving children in the older group who got put into the older side of the mixed class. The idea being that they could work well independently if the teacher had to focus on the younger year group. He’s old for his year too so almost 2 years older than some of the others so socially fine and given he’s top set for the streamed subjects and working miles ahead in everything it was certainly not because he was academically weak.

Although even if a kid isn’t top of the class so what, not everyone is, my younger child isn’t academic the way his brother is.

At the end of the day the school presumably need to do the split, they’ll do it how they think best, and the OP should big up to her son how good it will be instead of making up some narrative that he’s been “kept behind” which is plainly untrue and only going to make the wee guy feel rotten.

If you’d spoken to the head in our school and asked for your kid to be moved she’d have told you to sling your hook. They can’t pander to the whims and prejudices of parents.

But that was because your child’s school clearly wasn’t very good @EvilPea.. Nothing to do with mixed classes per se.

A good school will manage mixed classes so that the children don’t feel like this. My son knew he’d been in the top groups for everything and didn’t at all take it as any kind of negative when he was put in the mixed class, he was totally unfazed. Of course the fact we were too as we were confident in the school to place him in the class best suited to him Instead of droning on about being “kept behind” ,and also the school did things with the whole p6 year group so they did some work and assemblies etc with the whole year group.

Re-reading the op, it reads as though OP may not be from the uk originally - in which case she may be unaware how very normal mixed year group classes are.

If only five are going up, then most of yr 3 will surely be with your ds. Considering the year that they have had then the stability might help him. Revisiting some of the other concepts before they move on. Also maybe the five moving up are a clear friendship group and if only four plus your son moved up they thought he might be excluded. They will probably though keep mixing the classes so if you don't want to go through this each year then look for a school which doesn't have mixed classes. Maybe this will be the motivation he needs to work on his school work and social skills.

How do you feel his social skills are? Do you have his friends over to play? How does he work in a group? Can he explain his ideas and get others on board?

I'm a governor at primary school with a yearly admission of 45 - i.e. one and a half classes per year. So, clearly, there is no alternative but to split year groups into different classes. In our case, this is Yr1 , Yr1-2, Yr 2 etc etc.

The school basically splits the year groups on age, with some flexibility for considerations such as special needs. Every single year some parents express concerns that their child is being "kept down", but they are simply being allocated to a class.

At our school, teachers plan work together and set work appropriate for the year group. So, in a year 1-2 class, a Year 2 child will be doing Year 2 work with expectations set at Year 2. Overall, they aren't treated any differently from their peers in the other class. If this isn't the case at OP's DS's school, then something is wrong, but I would be very surprised if this were the case.

If I had ever secretly recorded my children, and played it back to their teachers...I think I’d have been ostracised forever!

This is really common in small schools. My school mixed year 2/3 and 3/4. They also mixed several other years so overall they were I think two classes down from a regular school, one each from Infants and juniors.

I was kept down some years and not in others. They based it on social maturity, educational ability and also the personality mixes and friendship groups for each class.

It was always framed as each year special helpers stayed in the younger class. I remember my mom saying she was a little unsure when I was kept in the lower class but by the end of the year my confidence was hugely improved.

I've seen similar in my eldest who was moved from top set maths to lower set (she's bottom end of top or top end of
Bottom ability wise.) She was upset at first but after reassurance it was soon forgotten. Her confidence improved hugely and she went back up a couple of years later when she was better able to deal.

Just reassure him and trust the school to make the right choices. They've been splitting years for a long time presumably.

Obviously you’ve every right to feel this might not work for your son, but I think you possibly don’t realise how popular this sort of set up is.

In each of the 5 primary schools I’ve worked in, every one has a blended 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 class, purely based on space and intake numbers.

Obvious as a teacher it’s not ideal, but there are many more things that happen in a school that I would be more bothered about

So it's been ok for him and for the teacher to have a Y2/3 class while your son was in Y2. Now, the vast majority of the class remain in the Y2/3 class as Y3, while only 5 I'd the children move to the other class. Why would your son have to be one of the 5 children, who are moving to a different class?

I have ages 5-11 in my class. I differentiate and none of the kids "move to a different class" until they leave for secondary school. The setup is on purpose. We have three of these classes in our school.