My school wants to know tomorrow if my RC is going back 1st June

[ShutUpaYourFace]

I'm torn. My head says send him back, heart says not yet.
I was going to wait until nearer the time to make my decision but the school needs to know numbers which is fair enough.
I know the virus is with us for the long haul.
I know the school will implement the guidelines where possible. I know my child needs to go back, but my child is 4 he's ok at home. He will be mixing with 15 other children plus staff that's 17 plus different households. It won't be like normal, he was often tearful going, I wonder if sending him will be more harmful, he maybe with a different teacher, not with his usual friends.
I already work and have worked through except when my ds had a nasty chest infection going into lockdown so I had to isolate with him. Partner is furloughed not for childcare reasons. He delivers booze to pubs/bars so no chance of him returning until bars and restaurants re-open. So I'm thinking to leave ds with dp until mid June to see how things pan out.
I think writing this I have made my decision but interested to know WWYD?

@KittenVsBox

The school are not correct in telling you this. It is not about the school having a certain number of 'spaces'. They must plan for all children in those year groups being able to return, even if this isn't on 1st June. Now I'm not saying that this will always be easy for the schools- space and numbers of staff might be incredibly difficult challenges to overcome. There is even provision in the guidance for local authorities/ academy trusts to offer places in anther setting as an absolute last resort. But they can't just say that you have to sign up now or lose your place.

While teaching unions aren't happy for their members to go back, while teachers themselves are keeping their own kids off and while we're not allowed to mix with our friends/ family I'm not confident that sending my kids in is the right move.

@Norestformrz - a small group of children can easily be supervised with individual pots of playdough. I thought you were an early years teacher? Have you never done dough disco or similar with your children?
Remember you will only have a max of 15.
Hard plastic toys can be washed at the end of the session/day by the teacher! A bowl of hot soapy water or a cleaning spray will do the job.
Children actually enjoy washing toys as an activity...
I know the norm in schools is for nothing to ever be cleaned and toys are all filthy, but honestly just ask a nursery nurse how to clean as you go along - it is the norm in nurseries.
If your classroom is stuffed full of toys, then thin it out. Less is often more, especially in early years - you don't need a million different types of toys.
Things will be different and teachers will have to adjust to less teaching and more cleaning, but it is possible.

Other European countries eg Denmark have reopened schools. There has been no evidence of increased risk to children nor the spread to adults by children. It is up to you, but I definitely am. I want my child to be back, to socialise. It won't be like normal, but it will be be better to get back for 6 weeks before the summer and just see how it goes.

We are going to be living with COVID for some time and there can be no 100% guarantees about safety for anyone as it's a new disease. I don't want my child to miss out on any more learning.

Agree with hadenoughfornow. Our school has been fantastic. I would not be happy with a school that was discouraging. As I said, we are going to be living with this disease for a while. Everyone, including schools, need to get on with it as safely as possible. Others are

Some good points made. I think in the case of families who are in two minds, who have the privilege of being able to make the decision, if the only reservation you have is about the experience of the 'new normal' for your child.... Just see how it goes.

I think that is what we will do. DD is desperate to go back and I have prepared her for the idea that she might not be in a group with the same friends/ in the same room/ with the same teacher. If I send her back and she hates it I won't send her again. The children that really need it will keep going as for a lot of children however it is organised it will be better than the 'new normal' they are living right now.

"a small group of children can easily be supervised with individual pots of playdough. " 15 isn't a small group of children and what if some want to play elsewhere ? A teacher only has one pair of eyes and one pair of hands.
I was an early years teacher for many years and I'm really pleased I won't be faced with the dilemma of keeping children safe and providing them with an age appropriate education.
At the beginning of this lockdown I saw so many posts from parents saying how they struggled with their own child /children yet you seems to think a teacher can magically ensure the safety of every child in their care under current conditions.

"Other European countries eg Denmark have reopened schools."
You do realise that Denmark has had a total of 543 deaths from Covid 19 (about 1% of the U.K.) while the U.K. had 468 in a single day !

@Norestformrz yes, I’ve worked with children for a long time and know it’s perfectly possible to supervise 15 children I’m sure any somewhat competent teacher can keep an eye on some children at a play dough table while others play on the floor.
And looking after your own children is a totally different prospect!

"Hard plastic toys can be washed at the end of the session/day by the teacher! A bowl of hot soapy water or a cleaning spray will do the job."
How many toys do you think there are in an average early years setting ... more than will fit into a bowl of hot soapy water

Again, how can others be managing?

Thousands of people are having going to work on crowded public transport to feed their families and keep their jobs. In contrast, opening schools will be extremely well managed and low risk to all if the corrrect measures are in place. It helps children, parents and is a key step in getting the economy moving again.

Any school that is actively discouraging parents is not fit for purpose and does not have the right motivation to educate children.

" I’m sure any somewhat competent teacher can keep an eye on some children at a play dough table while others play on the floor." Very limiting in learning opportunities perhaps you need to consult a competent teacher

@Norestformrz you do realise that schools and nurseries have been open all through this? And are managing these measures?
Yes, there will be fewer toys. Yes, the curriculum will be more limited. But it is a global pandemic

Yes I do realise schools have been open with fewer than 15 in a group and without many of the usual resources that children had pre lockdown

"Thousands of people are having going to work on crowded public transport to feed their families and keep their jobs." Which is why we have the second highest death toll in the world

Other European countries eg Denmark have reopened schools.

I will be entirely happy for schools to be reopened just like Denmark's WHEN OUR DAILY DEATH AND INFECTION RATES ARE THE SAME AS DENMARK'S WERE WHEN THEY RE-OPENED THE SCHOOLS.

We closed schools to the vast majority of pupils when there were 40 deaths per day. Why is it safe to return when the deaths per day are over 10x that number, and when 1 in 400 people (as measured by a large randomised sample) currently have COVID?

In a 'bubble' of 15 plus a teacher, there are easily 50-60 people - the households of those children + adult - directly linked by a virus transmission route (mixing in school, not socially distanced). It is extremely likely that some of the children in different bubbles will in fact be siblings or half-siblings who live in the same household, and for there to be linked 'chains' of infection throughout the school via these households.

So with 3 year groups returning - 90 children + at least 6 staff in a 1 form entry school, plus vulnerable / keyworker childcare probably adding another group at least [as more will come in if siblings are in school in returning years] you are easily up to 400 people, all connected via a combination of the school and home environments., even if everyone still maintains ALL of the other social distancing rules (unlikely)

If 1 person in that network is infected, then it can be transmitted to them all - as admitted by the chief scientific advisor to the DfE in that extraordinary meeting with MPs.

I will say again, as I have said many times: it is not that children will die (that is very unlikely). it is that their parents, teachers and grandparents, and those elderly or vulnerable people who those people work with or care for who will die, as a result of this policy.

norestformrz you are looking for reasons not to do it, rather than try it.
I suggest watching the interview with the WHO Chief Scientist, Soumya Swaminathan, on Andrew Marr this morning for an informed opinion.

Teachers and schools have a duty to do their jobs and are luckier than many for the reasons as said before. This virus will not go away. It could be with us for years. I am thankful our school is trying to make this work.

Good luck with all everyone with making your decision.

How many toys do you think there are in an average early years setting ... more than will fit into a bowl of hot soapy water

So don’t make all of them available every day. It’s really not difficult.

I will probably send my reception child back. I would love to send my year 3 child back too. They miss really school, even the unusual school they may go back to!

This virus will not go away. It could be with us for years.

I agree - but I do not agree that there will always be 4000+ new cases a day, nor 400-500 deaths.

If we stick at it, do what is boring, and hard, and genuinely heroic - keep the rules, open low risk places first, work out solutions based on risk not politics, not give in because people are bored or shouting loudly - then the numbers will go down, testing and tracing capacity will be in place, and we will be properly ready to re-open the really risky places where social distancing is impossible, such as schools, and to deal extremely promptly with any outbreaks that do occur as a result.

When thousands of schools have simultaneous new outbreaks, is the infrastructure currently in place to test, track and isolate every single one? If not, why not wait unil cases are right down,. so there may only be tens of schools with new outbreaks, and the infrastructure can swing immediately into action?

South Korea, Germany - look at what they have in place in terms of intrastructure, get it in place, THEN start high risk activities...not the other way round.

Other European countries eg Denmark have reopened schools.

On the day Denmark opened some schools, they had 184 new cases and 10 deaths.

They opened with 8-10 to a class including the adult, spread across large school sites with numerous empty classrooms and vast outside space. I’m pretty sure they were also doing mornings only.

When we are in the situation where we are seeing 10 deaths and 180 new cases a day, then perhaps we should look at reopening schools.

When we are in the situation where we are seeing 10 deaths and 180 new cases a day, then perhaps we should look at reopening schools.

Exactly. Follow the Danish model IN FULL, not cherry-picking some parts but not others. Do what they did when they did it, not blindly following the actions but not the context.

norestformrz I'm talking about people returning to work this week using public transport. Schools have two more weeks to make sure procedures are in place.

If you are waiting for the halcyon days when this virus is 100% eradicated, you'll be waiting until at least until the end next year for when a virus can be given to the entire population. This is obviously not practical, I'm sure you would agree. Just need to get on with it and look to make it work for all those involved.

Although, looking at it more locally ie local transmission rates would make sense rather than agree to a national roll out would make sense. Still, look for solutions rather than a blanket 'it can't be done'

How many toys do you think there are in an average early years setting ... more than will fit into a bowl of hot soapy water

And we only have one hot water tap that isn’t in a toilet!

Alonghotsummer no one is suggesting waiting until it's completely eradicated but it needs to be under control with lower infection and death rates and we need to know more about its impact on children. They aren't guinea pigs!