August born starting Sept 2020 with delayed PSE

[user1481019859]

Dear all

Hoping for some thoughts and experiences on a mid August born boy starting reception in Sept.

He is very able in many ways, already reading many words, bright and interested in the world so I have no concerns there. However he has always seemed to struggle with social and emotional skills, and physical development. He has been extremely slow to potty train for example, and has only recently started going to the potty independently at 3 years and 9 months. He still wets himself every day and does not seem very aware/in control of the physical sensations around this.

The local authority nursery called us in at the start of the year as they were concerned about his personal, social and emotional development. There have been many incidents of pushing, he needs a lot of 1:1 interaction from adults and struggles with social skills with other kids, he finds it hard to settle in group activities eg circle time. He also did not particularly enjoy nursery and really struggled with the separation from us, refusing to go on many an occasion. He started nursery age 3 on 15 hours a week (2.5 days), we did not start him earlier as we had attempted at 2 years old and it was very distressing for him. He did not seem ready for the separation and we were able to reduce our outgoings to make it possible for me to look after him for longer. I did take him to play groups although he never really enjoyed the group activities there either eg circle time and refused to take part most of the time, and did not want to sit down for snack time etc, was disruptive. He is a real character though and wonderful.

The nursery were hoping to make a short term plan for him, review his progress and decide whether he needed more intervention.

We have a place at a school which seems very nice, quite gentle and chilled, 2 form entry. However we also applied to delay reception just in case, which was accepted, and hoped to have the benefit of the nursery assessment to make a decision on whether he should start in September or we should delay until 2021. Of course covid-19 happened so they were never able to start the assessment, so we are none the wiser.

I am concerned about the lack of social interaction over the last weeks and into the summer as this is the area he struggled with. He started to make friends at nursery towards the end, his closest friend is a September born boy who will be in the year below him due to their birthdays. (Although would be in a different school anyway).

I am not at all bothered about giving him an academic advantage, I just want him to be as happy as possible and for it not to be really stressful for him starting school. I realise there are pros and cons to delay or starting. I am just struggling to know what to do particularly due to covid and being unable to do more preparation and transition. I am sure there are many others in the same position.

Has anyone else had experience of an academically seemingly advanced, but socially physically and emotionally behind boy starting school? My concern is not just reception, which I realise is very play based, but the transition to year 1 as I am just not sure if he will be able to sit still, he can be very loud and disruptive, and I worry about that being labelled as behavioural issues, when another year might really help as he might just grow out of it. I also dont want to hold him back and it might be awkward to be the oldest in the year however. There is also peer pressure not to delay, which I know I should not care about. We have spoken to the school and they have never met him so did not want to advise either way, although said they would have strategies in place to help him should he start. The nursery think we should take the school place this year, as he does not have cognitive difficulties (they have quite a few special needs children). So I am not sure what we would do over the year if he did not start school.

Grateful for any thought and experiences. We just really want him to be happy.

Yes. And we didn’t defer (it was right at the start of when the rules started to change and I had severe health issues so didn’t look into it properly). Well I wish we had (my child was also born early and should’ve been September).. the slight concerns around behaviour and sensitivities etc age 2/3 have basically turned into my child struggling at school, bullying and an Ed Psych has shown my child to be neurodiverse - very high IQ alongside specific learning difficulties basically dyslexia, sensory issues, maybe Dyspraxia too. I wish we had that extra year.

Hi busymummy, thank you so much for your reply. It is completely invaluable to hear from you and hear about your experience. Thank you!!

It sounds like you have had a really tough time. You were in a difficult position and sounds like you couldn't have really made a different choice at the time especially as it was more unusual to delay back then. It sounds so tough though and a complicated set of issues to deal with, especially the bullying, must be heart breaking.

We don't want to hold him back or for him to get bored, and it is still fairly unusual to delay and we will not have much support on that from family, but on the other hand feel his happiness and ability to fit in socially and emotionally in the early years could be more important in setting him up. Sounds like your LO definitely has similarities with mine. Hope things are going as well as they can be now and the school are supportive and recognising the issues?

Hiya, we’ve had very little support from school (they thought she was dramatic and uncooperative also suggested maybe on spectrum .. I had to point out strongly that she was seeing double (she also has strabismus)..) once when she was crying at school as being made to do more work... she is behind in maths and writing. In year 4 now. I can’t imagine how we will start secondary in two years when writing is such a chore but she hates primary school and curriculum and excessive focus on maths and English (our school very fixated with these subjects). Support has improved a little now we are finally diagnosed but this has taken 5 years since starting there!!!!
Honestly if you have any doubt as to his readiness I would defer.
Best of luck!

Hi again, that sounds really stressful and difficult. Poor her and poor you! Frustrating that it is such a battle. And so awful about making her do more work when she was crying!

Learning should be fun and i feel it's such a shame for children who don't quite fit into the norm that there is not a more sensitive or flexible approach.

We too have had conflicting advice, but from the nursery.

So sorry you have had such a hard time.

Huge thanks for your responses though, and it does definitely concur with my gut feeling he is not ready! Hope things keep getting better for your LO.

Yes, we were in exactly your position 2years ago with an August born very bright boy but clear PSE issues. We delayed him and I am so glad we have. He will now go into year 1 in September and although the issues still persist, I am so glad he's not going in to year 2! Absolutely the right decision for us and I do not regret it one tiny bit!

Thank you @user1481019859 Thats so kind of you to give your sympathy. It’s been a very tough time indeed.

Totally agree that schools should cater for different types of learners. It’s incredibly tough when your child doesn’t fit the mould at school. It’s very isolating and, as someone not naturally super pushy, I find my own mental health being affected by the constant pushing for things to happen or be done differently. It’s exhausting.

Best of luck for your son. If I had my time again I’d 100 percent defer.

There is absolutely no disadvantages whatsoever to deferring.
And given all the social issues you mentioned - slow adjustment to the group settings, not yet totally in control of toilet, etc - I think it will be actually harmful to his longer term development and self esteem if he were that kid in the class who isn’t yet ready but is forced to sit and try to do things that others can do. And I don’t mean reading words - I mean following teachers instructions and doing group activities, and have dry clothes, etc.
That above is true even if the world hasn’t been turned upside down. And more so now.
No one really knows how the need social distancing will affect schools when they come back properly in Sept.

You are lucky to have a choice to defer. Many parents wished they did. And the fight for that in the UK has been going for years.
Socially - there are only benefits. Kids that are older in the class are more confident and things come easier to them. Academically - also only benefits. Summer borns, as a group consistently underachieve in GCSEs and A-levels.
So - not sure who is giving you social pressure to not defer, where all the evidence points to it being beneficial?

Hey everyone

Thank you so much for the replies. I can't tell you how helpful all of them are. We have been going backwards and forwards atm and the lack of possibility to assess him against his peers does not help - although totally realise we are in the same position as everyone else on that! It is tough for everyone right now.

@Busymummy16 - I am the same and not naturally pushy either, so I too have found it exhausting at times for example pushing my GP for a referral when he was a baby. It really sounds like you have had an exhausting and emotionally draining experience and I hope it gets better for you all. Thank you for the well wishes too.

@politics31thank you for sharing the experience, sounds very similar indeed. That is heartening to read and sounds like you made exactly the right decision for your son. Did you have support or resistance from the nursery or school? Did you have any issues with him being the oldest or with being bored - or have any concerns about that further down the road?

@MMmomDD thanks very much for your thoughts too, very well put. Reading your message when you put it like that it seems like a no brainer. The pressure.... I guess part real and part probably inflated in my head. The nursery are encouraging us to take the place at school - they are a local authority nursery and they say they have never had a child defer. They have a I think a higher than average proportion of high needs children and so they probably do not see the case when they see a bright able boy - even though it was them that raised the issues with his PSE development. It feels a bit "computer says no" ie it's a standard policy that all children in the year group go to school in their year group, and schools take it from there.

Family and friends also notice how able he is and are quite mainstream in that you just go with your year group. None of my friends with similar aged kids are deferring.

I guess I know I can be a bit protective, I would argue not overly so as just trying to respond to his needs. I shouldn't care about what others say, but could they be right, maybe he will struggle a bit initially but then catch up on PSE development? If he is with kids, some a year younger, will he feel bored in years down the line even if it is better for him to be deferred in the immediate term? He is tall for his age, will he feel awkward?

You are right we are really lucky to have the choice. But I also feel a bit uncomfortable we are asking for "special treatment " (I know we are not really as it is not government policy) when others with children who have higher needs do not have a choice, eg if they were born earlier in the year. Will it be obvious he is older if he is ahead of everyone else academically later? One of my friends reactions when I mooted the idea was "oh, that's what parents do when they want to have an advantage over everyone else" - which for us (and I am sure all who do it!) is so so not the point.

I also wonder with covid - totally agree could be highly disruptive and I hate the thought the teachers might not be able to hug him etc when he inevitable struggles - but in a weird way could there actually be some benefit because it will be a gentle start to school if they are only going back part time? If we delay, they wont be so amenable to reduced hours if he still has needs, as he will be older and statutory school age. But then I worry it will be a mad push later to catch up when covid is under control e.g. when in year 1 and he will really struggle with that...

Also, if we do defer, I dont know what we will do with him. There are no places at the school nursery. He could stay in his current nursery even though they are not supportive but they have warned it might not be stretching for him. I am not in a position to homeschool.

Ultimately, like every parent I just want him to be happy and for the start of school to be as comfortable a process as possible - at the moment I don't know how he will cope with a higher adult to child ratio, the lunch hall, getting dressed, not wetting himself etc! I know a lot can change in a few months though.

Anyway... apologies, another long essay like my first post! I know I probably come across as overthinking it, and almost definitely need to just chill out!!

Also totally regretting not changing my user handle but seems too late to bother now!

OP - I know it’s a hard decision for you and you seem to be going in rounds, and thinking of a lot of factors at the same time. Only few of them are really important, only what YOU think is right for your son. Others have their own interests and priorities.

I have a bright early summer born DD. She is now in secondary school, still doing great academically. If we were in the US - I’d have had a choice to deter her, as is commonly done with summer borns there.
And if I had a choice here - even despite all her academic successes now - I’d have deferred.

She was always the younger in the class, always the quieter and less sure of herself. The social differences between her older classmates and her have lingered over years. Not only her, mind you. A few of her friends are also summer borns - so I can see the similarities.
If she went a year later - she’s have been just as academically able but more confident.

As to you concerns about being bored at school if academically advanced and older in a year - it’s not an issue. There will be range of abilities in a class and other kids who know their letters and can add numbers - which is all it means in that age group. They do all kinds of things at school and boredom isn’t a issue.
Similarly at the nursery - there is no ‘not enough stretching’ for a 4yo. Most of the world doesn’t even start to formally educate kids at that age, as they learn best by plaything in that age group. So he’ll continue to do that, rather than being forced to sit down and trace letters, etc.

There is no academic advantage of starting former education at 4 - as clearly demonstrated by the UK system not consistently outperforming European and other systems that start later.
So - academically your boy would do just as well if he starts a year later. And socially - he’ll only benefit from being more ready, and as a result having a better self esteem and confidence that older kids in the year have.

I think, in some way you feel that sending him a year later has a stigma. It doesn’t. And you don’t have to defend yourself.
Given his social development - he is simply not ready and will struggle. So why do it to him and hope he’ll adjust. He will eventually, of course but at what price.
So, in w way - a no brainier, really.

I would definitely think about deferring in your situation op. Sounds like he could really benefit from that extra year at home to grow emotionally. My dd is September born. And although she's always been very laid back and bright, I couldn't have imagined her starting school the previous year, of she'd been born a mere week before she was. I would have 100% deferred her, and she was probably as emotional stable as you can get from a 4 year old. It's such a tender age, and trying to prep them for full time schooling when they are still a toddler, is stressful. The behaviours you mention, the reactiveness, no focus during group activity, all stuff that is a common trait in toddlers, but often improves hugely during that 4-5 year old transition. You say he's academically very ahead, so chances are these physical and emotional areas, will develop later. My dd could speak in full sentences at 18 months, and do basic sums, but couldn't jump with both feet off the ground until close to age 4! But now she's as physically able as her peers. I would give him that extra time to find his feet in the world, before sending him off to school before he's ready, as I think it will always be an uphill struggle. My antenatal group was made up of 8 babies, 3 born in August and 5 in September. All the August babies were deferred a year. There really is no stigma and is actually becoming quite commonplace. Good luck Op.

Similar to @MMmomDD. We have a summer born where due to significant medical issues, we were advised to defer, but knowing she was bright and already above of her peers academically, we chose not to. I agree there are still inherent disadvantages, and class participation is always dominated by the older more confident children; however academically she is still thriving, so it certainly hasn’t held her back. I think it really does depend on the reasons for deferral...sometimes behavioural issues in children, are put down to simply being too young, and ‘not ready’, when really there is more behind it, and another year at home in the same environment, does little to change that. I’ve seen older kids who were deferred, that still struggled with classroom settings and the general disciplines of a regular school day.

Yes we have a July born - we didn't defer because it was yonks ago and we weren't allowed. Academically there has been no problem, socially it has really been a struggle, we knew it at nursery - his teacher said she felt she wasn't ready for school and expressed frustration at not being able to defer school for him.
Year 12 he has finally caught up socially - best year yet - he has real friends now - would I chose to go this way - no not on your nelly! It has been heartbreaking to watch. He cried every day when he came home from Reception and I just held him until he stopped - every bit of me knew he was too young - in hindsight I'd have more faith in my ability to judge - I have gained that at least now.

An extra year of play won't disadvantage him academically.

Being the oldest in the year instead of the youngest will be a huge advantage - not just academically but socially and also things like being picked for sports teams and school plays.

Dear all- just to say an enormous thank you for all of these replies. I really cannot thank you all enough. Sorry for my delay in responding - I seem to not have notifications for them - and a lot going on as I am sure everyone else has!

We have finally settled on delaying him to next year. Thanks to all of your thoughts which have been extremely reassuring and helpful - and have been hugely influential for me finding my way through the unimportant stuff to what is really right for him.

@MMmomDD thank you, you are totally right, a lot of other factors I was taking into account that were not as important, and just confusing the issue. You are right, the "not enough stretching", etc is mainly based on what others have said to me - including a teacher friend. But I shouldn't care what others say or as you say, feel the need to defend myself. I agree, the social side is absolutely key for him and it would be a massive knock on his confidence if he is struggling with that. He would survive but not thrive by going when he is not ready, and why do that? You are totally right. Sorry to hear that you were not able to defer your daughter here, that sucks.

@ISawATiger thank you for this. Interesting to hear all your antenatal group August borns were deferred. I have no one doing the same in my peer group, not sure why. Good to know there is no stigma in your view. And as you say, the transition each year seems to be massive, and 4-5 will be too!

@Mumto2two also interesting to hear. It could inherently be his personality , and may struggle anyway despite another year. But hopefully this will give him the best chance. Have spoken to others saying similar to you though, that their kids have done well despite being the youngest.

@FiveEyes sounds like you have had a really challenging time. So glad your son has made real friends now. This is exactly what I worry about with my son. It is so hard to make the right call, and we do what we can with the info available at the time. I too have struggled with having faith in my judgement (and for me, with not being defensive about my choices) which is strengthening little by little but still has a way to go!

@CaryStoppins - thanks - you are right. He is in his own imaginary world all day so will have no problems at all with another year of play!

So glad to have made the decision, feels like a huge burden has lifted.

Thank you mumsnet xx

You know with all this Covid stuff - a child who is young will not cope as well all the extra rules that will undoubtedly be added to norm. I think if you can delay - you are right in doing so.

@GreenGreenGrassofSloane that is a really good point. I had been thinking about all the disruption etc but I had not factored in all the extra rules. He finds rules challenging at the best of times! Even more weight to making the decision that way. Thank you.