Does this punishment fit the crime?

[blondehelen]

My dd is in year 4. She has never had to be punished by head teacher before. Earlier in the week she was told off for talking in assembly. Punishment was to stand up for some of the assembly.
Today talking in assembly again , punishment was standing up in assembly and in addition, told off in front of whole school and next week has to stay in for playtimes all week outside headteachers office. She was told of her punishment in front of whole school.

Whilst I know she did wrong and she knows it too, it was heartbreaking to pick up a sobbing child, and it has taken me most of the evening to stop her crying every few minutes. I can't help feeling that the punishment doesn't fit the crime and to humiliate her in front of the whole school by dishing out the punishment in assembly was harsh.

Should I let it lie, or speak to the head?

to embarress her in assembly is quite enough the detentions are totally un neccesary, id speak to head and ask why she has taken this so severely for you

Seems a little harsh

Suspect they are being mean at the beginning of term to get them into shape for the rest of the year.

I would have a word with at least her class teacher, obv saying that you know your dd is no angel, but pointing out that she is genuinely distressed by the punshment

It does sound harsh but it was a second offence. I think you should support the school.
As for being told of the punishment in front of the whole school - well, it was a misdemeanour committed in front of the whole school. I don't see how you can blame the head for that.

When did public humiliation become a form of effective discipline?

Does seem very harsh. Poor kid. A whole week with no playtimes?!

Hummm this is tricky, i have a dd in year 4 too and can imagine she would be gutted too , on one hand i agree with going to the head and asking for her to get a lesser punishment as you can see she knows it was wrong and is unlikely to do it again (if you do that i think you have to explain to your dd that you will not do it again) and otoh I think schools these days are very limited in the punishments they can give and children take advantage of it, they also know their parents are likely to back them up and make a fuss, meaning they are more likely to misbehave again.

A whole week missing playtime sounds harsh but I think it depends on what actually happened. Did she carry on talking after repeated requests for hush? Was she quite loud? Really, it's about disruption and school assemblies - or lessons for that matter - can't work if children talk during them. Silence at those times really matters and teachers are right to insist on it I think. Does she know she's in the wrong because of the punishment or does she just mind missing playtime? If she's normally well behaved then a punishment will hit her hard. And her sense of humiliation will be greater than the other children's interest in what she was doing. Not sure if any of this helps, just wanted to give you some other ideas to consider. Good luck anyway.

What 'punishment' would you suggest?

Thanks for the responses. I think 2 or 3 playtimes would have been sufficient. I think I have more issue with how the punishment was given. Yes, stand up in assembly, but dish out additional punishment for second offence away from whole school. I think my dd has been made an example of at the beginning of term and it doesn't sit very well with me.

I think there is a role in schools for making examples of children's behaviour - both with good and bad behaviour. If you behave in this desirable way, you get rewards, in this undesirable way, you lose privileges or fun time. I'd worry about a school that only punished and never rewarded. It does seem a big leap from standing up in assembly to all playtimes lost though. I think punishments are often better graduated. But perhaps the headteacher thought "she's year 4 and she's been told about this already and the last punishment clearly didn't work so this time she's got to feel it otherwise she won't stop talking."

You could talk to the head or you could talk to your daughter and say "It'll be a long week but when it's over, you know it'll never happen again because you won't talk in assembly any more." I think we can help children see the reason for punishments and learn from them and sometimes that's more helpful to them than trying to get a punishment reduced.

I think this is way too hard on a four yr old, totally out of proportion. Making her miss all playtimes and have the humilaition of standing outside the head's office is just too much. So what happens if a child is violent or is bullying? Punishment needs to be proportionate to be both effective and keep a child's self-esteem. Dd1's school has an excellent dsicplinary record and this type of punishment is reserved for really bad behaviour.

I would talk to the head asking exactly what punishments go with which behaviours. If hitting or name-calling get sthe same as talking in assembly then I would be concerned. Actually, I would be concerned anyway. I do agree that parents running up to the school every five minutes' is annoying but she is 4 and this is over the top. One playtime missed, okay. A week? Not fair.

I thought she was year 4. If she's four then I'd say something quite different.

she is 8 in year four, not four years old. But do agree about graduating punishments.

Oh, my mistake, year four, sorry.

Still think a week is a bit much though. A day seems fairer.

I'd phone and speak to the head. I'd say I was disappointed to hear of dd's poor behaviour and that dd is sorry etc. I'd seek further clarification on what dd did exactly, since her punishment is so severe and prolonged. I'd say dd is upset and I want to help her make sure it doesn't happen again.

Then the critical bit, I suppose. Was dd warned repreatedly, was she cheeky, did she cause disturbance etc etc. Do I agree that punishment seems appropriate or do I think it's too harsh.

If I thought it was too harsh (on knowing all the facts) I'd say I would support the school this time but I was concerned at severity and at dd's distress and that next time a lesser punishment would have equal effect etc etc