Primary school appeal

[Twoinjuredswanss]

Hi
My daughter didn’t get a reception place. This was correct-we live further away than the last person to get the space. However I want to appeal.

The school takes 15 children each year. There is a mixed nursery/reception class and then a y1/2 mixed class. This year’s reception class is not full-14 children.

The nursery isn’t full so in September (even with my child) the nursery/reception class will be less than 30.
The year after if my child is admitted there’d be 30 in the y1/2 class (14 in year above and 16 in my daughters class).
Obviously I don’t know how many will apply for reception next year.
Is it an infant class size appeal? Do I have a chance? Thank you

I'm not an expert so can't answer this but bumping for you.

It sounds like you might be able to argue it's not ICS as their numbers would be fine as long as they admit one less next year. However I imagine you would need very good reasons to argue that they should reduce next year's numbers for the benefit of your child. Do you know if they usually fill their places? Is the nursery not being full likely to be an indication of lower reception applicants or do lots apply having not been at the nursery?

That space in the current reception could be filled at any time, so unfortunately I don't think it's relevant.

Do you know where you are on the waiting list? Did she get a place elsewhere?

Yes she got a place elsewhere. She’s first on the waiting list but I think everyone will accept their places so I don’t think she’ll get in that way. They never normally fill their places-this is the first year ever being over! No other year group is full. Thank you

If she's on the waiting list they will keep her on it til December. If you're top of the list, and they didn't fill all the places, I'd say you may have a chance, but don't get your hopes up.

What would your grounds for appeal be? I.e why does your child need to go to that school?

I didn’t think the grounds (it’s convenient transport wise and pick up, it’s got before and after school clubs which I need etc) mattered for infant appeals? Or am I wrong about that?
I thought my best chance was the numbers argument, so won’t be over 30 to one teacher in reception? Though I obv can’t predict what’ll happen next year-as matters stand it won’t be above 30 but I suppose the extra space in current reception could be taken any time?? Argh!!

Infant class size includes future prejudice. As you point out the 21/22 year 1/2 class wouldn't be full given current numbers, However if they admitted your child and the cohort below your child is full, then the y1/2 class WILL be over 30 when your child is in year 2.

Does the school attend the appeal? I don’t imagine they’ll object to admitting one more because they need the money! If the school say that they can manage the infant class sizes so it doesn’t go over 30 so for example saying they are flexible about arranging classes so next year might do a mixed nursery/reception/y1 class and a y1/2 class would that help?

Thank you everyone so far for your help

Of course they'll attend and object - it's against the law for them to agree to go over ICS!

Financially they'd be screwed as they'd have to employ another teacher, costing what £30k at least whilst only getting a fraction of that in funding for one extra pupil!

It’s only an infant class size appeal if the grounds are that the local authority made a mistake in the admissions process. As you say they haven’t so then it’s an appeal on the grounds that your child’s need for the place is greater than the school’s need to stick to their admissions criteria.

It’s only an infant class size appeal if the grounds are that the local authority made a mistake in the admissions process. As you say they haven’t so then it’s an appeal on the grounds that your child’s need for the place is greater than the school’s need to stick to their admissions criteria.

Eh? It's infect class size if reception, year 1 or year 2 classes will now or in the future have over 30. It's nothin to do with mistakes that might have been made

It’s only an infant class size appeal if the grounds are that the local authority made a mistake in the admissions process. As you say they haven’t so then it’s an appeal on the grounds that your child’s need for the place is greater than the school’s need to stick to their admissions criteria.

Er....no!

In fact it's the other way round - if the authority has made a mistake, then it shouldn't matter if it's ICS as they should automatically rectify the mistake.although they often don't

I think it will come down to whether they feel it is acceptable to grant an extra place this year and one less place in a future year, as well as not filling the current space in reception. How willing they are to might depend on whether they expect to fill future places, although obviously it is hard to know this. I don't think you can purely base your argument on there being a space in the year above. Under the school's current set-up this won't work every year as your child won't always be in a class with that year. Rearranging the classes across 3 year groups seems like a lot of potential disruption to a lot of pupils/teachers that probably outweighs the benefit to your child. So if your child is given a place, I expect they would need to reduce the spaces for 21/22 to 14 and not fill the reception place until that year group reaches year 3.

ICS appeals are based on select criteria e.g. a mistake being made, that means they have to go over 30. You have said this is not the case for you, so if they class it as ICS you have no argument. Non ICS appeals are based on arguing the benefit to your child outweighs any negative impact on other pupils/school. You can argue that it is not ICS, as they would not be over 30, bit presumably would also need to argue your reasons why your child really needs to go here. (This is my interpretation of this, I'm not an expert.)

I think it will come down to whether they feel it is acceptable to grant an extra place this year and one less place in a future year,

They'd have to change the PAN for next year which they cannot do.

It is usual for their to be a presenting officer who will make the case not to admit. If the school is LA maintained or Voluntary controlled this will be somebody from the LA. If the school is VA or an academy then it could be either somebody from the school or from the LA.
The presenting officer will always argue not to admit because if they do not, they will set a precedent that will always come back to haunt them. In terms of the infant class size regs it is not only about what will be the case in September but in the subsequent years. I am afraid that agreeing to take your child will lead to a situation where in 2 years time the year 1/2 class could have 31 in it. This is termed future prejudice and will mean the school is breaking the infant class size regulations. It is also the case that if pupils apply for current reception year that the school must admit the 15th pupil by law, which would then give a future prejudice situation much sooner.
You however should appeal. Your appeal should be based, as for a normal appeal, that the school offers things that other schools cannot do - small school etc. The other part of the appeal should be that the panel needs to consider whether future prejudice can be considered reasonable for this situation in 2 years time. Some panels may take the view that it is impossible to know what the situation could be in 2 years time and view the appeal as not an infant class size case but a "normal" case, which is why you should make as strong case as possible for the school. Having said that the likely outcome is not in your favour.

@prh47bridge can you help?? Thank you