5yo (nearly 6) can't rhyme

[Spanneroo]

She's in year 1, generally average reader, though gets some letters mixed up here or there (b and d etc). But she still cannot rhyme. It's like she can't hear it at all. I don't know how to explain it to her, but it's starting to upset her because her 2yo sister is able to do so now, and it's obvious when we're reading things together as 2yo will guess words correctly because of the rhyme, when DD1 can't. I hadn't realised she was quite so behind the curve until this to be honest, but wonder if it's something we should keep an eye on.

She also struggles to hear phonics when writing sometimes. For example, writing "bring" will often result in "bing" or "being", even with help slowing down the sounds. I am dyslexic and it was caught early by my brilliant primary school, so it's in the back of my mind that any of my children could also suffer the same.

Is it normal for an almost 6yo to still not be able to rhyme?

No, I wouldn't say its normal to not be able to rhyme at 6. Rhyming is part of phonological awareness and is usually seen as a key pre-reading skill to develop.

If she isn't struggling with reading it may not be anything to be concerned about but she might have an auditory processing issue that she has developed coping mechanisms to deal with. If continued practice guessing rhymes doesn't help, I personally would look into it a bit further.

Thanks @Londongirl13 I guess I will speak to her teacher once school is up and running again. She also struggles to follow quite basic instructions sometimes, but not always (like "pick up the yellow pen") which I had chalked down to getting easily distracted/not listening. It is a problem at home quite often, and had started to become one at school. Could this be related? She's otherwise bright and capable, so it's not a lack of comprehension per se

Perhaps obvious but has she had a hearing test?

Yes, she has. Failed the first one, but passed a follow up. They said that's fairly common in this age group due to inattention!

Spanneroo, I'm not sure but its probably worth mentioning to whoever is doing the assessment. Good luck with figuring it all out!

Yes, she has. Failed the first one, but passed a follow up. They said that's fairly common in this age group due to inattention!

Could be due to inattention but could also be due to glue ear that clears in summer and comes back in winter. My DD had that - clear test in June, failed again in November. What time of year was her pass test?

My thought (as a Mum) was auditory processing.

My youngest kept passing her NHS hearing tests not as a favour someone tested her privately and her hearing curve was skewed and couldn't hear "normally" at all!

Yes could be glue ear too, the NHS level for hearing concerns/failing is set very high and doesn't pick up children with poor hearing only those with awful hearing IYSWIM. Young children should have extremely good hearing far better than anyone aged 25+

Try and help her by asking her to match pictures that rhyme/don’t rhyme. Start with easy pictures like ‘bat cat and elephant’ And then make them increasingly harder working up to things like ‘pan ban and pat’.
My daughter is dyslexic and her brother who is 4 years younger finds lots of things easier than her which can be hard. I make sure to point out the massive strengths she has. We have openly talked about dyslexia since she was very young because I knew she would be from when she was about 1. There are lots of dyslexic people in our family including me.
It’s surprising how many adult say ‘oh yeah I’m dyslexic’ when your open about it so my daughter has always had good role models and sees it as a positive.

Quite a few kids of this age fail to understand rhyming. I have found the books that most help with this are the Hairy Maclary stories. I think it is because they are so engaging and they have definite rhythm as well as rhyme. the Monster Bed is another good one. Don't ask her just read them and it should come naturally otherwise perhaps another hearing test.Children with Glue ear sometimes miss this stage due to fluctuating hearing.

She has a million rhyming books - hairy mcclary, Julia Donaldson, plus plenty of others. Read to her every day, often multiple times per day. We also sing songs and nursery rhymes a lot. She just cannot seem to hear it. For example, if I ask 'what rhymes with cat', she will say something as abstract as 'fork'. If I ask her what a rhyme is, she tells me it's two words which have the same sound...

I think her hearing tests were autumn and spring. Could that still be glue ear? Once this health crisis calms down, I will look into booking a proper hearing test for her in case it's that. In the meantime, I'll focus on making sure she's paying attention when we are talking to her to get a clearer picture of exactly where the problem is.

If you are anywhere in the Windsor or Petersfield area let me know as the practitioner we used is amazing.

If it is auditory processing it tends to not get diagnosed until older primary years. The sooner it's picked up the more quickly treatment will help. My DD was only just turning 4 and only took 6 months or so using Johansen Therapy which is super quick, her hearing curve changed to being near normal.

Poor phonological awareness is common - about 1 in 4 children can struggle, and it can really impact their reading. Fortunately it is fairly easy to work on, and a bit of targeted work can have a big impact.

You could try breaking it down a bit more. First, can she identify if two sounds on their own are the same or different - e.g. g and g, or t and s. Slightly harder sounds - e.g. f and s or t and d.

Then, can she identify which sound is at the end of a word - what sound is at the end of cat (t), what sound is at the end of mop (p). Make sure you are talking about sounds not letters i.e. t not tee.
I would bet that she cannot do this!
There is loads you could do to help her with this. If you want to pm me I could make some suggestions?

@Elisheva

Having focussed on finding exactly where this issue us, I think it's actually hearing the sounds that's the problem. She is fairing much better when she doesn't say things out loud, be it reading or spelling. It's almost as if the process of speaking/hearing speech interferes with how able she is to do it.

It's certainly helped to pin this down though. For example, I will no longer ask her to read aloud unless she is stuck on a word (We are checking comprehension), and she's finding reading (and rhyming) easier since allowing it to stay in her head.

It's really important to listen to her read aloud. If she's making errors aloud it's almost certain she's doing the same when she reads silently to herself. Ignoring it can create huge future problems.

It's an indication for dylsexia, but it sounds like she's doing ok in school. Definitely worth keeping an eye on. Help her to see the rhyme by using wooden or magnetic letters and playing with them to make different rhymes (alphabet arc), e.g. have at in the middle and then add on a different letter at the beginning to make different rhyming words including non-words. Music and rhythm help too.
Keep an eye on spelling and flag it up as a concern with school if she's not keeping up with spelling. Also confidence is everything.

If she is ‘reading’ better in her head then she might be taking herself off down a cul de sac of sight reading rather than sounding out. While that might be easier in the short term it will severely impact her ability to progress in the future.
However, as you have identified she is struggling to hear individual sounds that is a good area to work on, it is fairly easy and can be fun too. If you can find 10-15 minutes a day to play sound games then you might find she progresses quite quickly.
Are you sure she can hear properly?

She has had her hearing tested but I will seek a second opinion in case that's an issue. My cousin developed deafness from around the age of 3, so could be a genetic component.

Obviously, we are still having her do rhyming and reading with us, but if she's using it as a tool (e.g. written instructions), she's better able to read them if not instructed to read aloud as she goes, instead telling me at the end of the sentence what it said IYSWIM. So I'll be letting her continue to do that.

By way of an example of exactly where she struggles, if I were to ask her verbally "does cat rhyme with dog?", she isn't reliably able to tell me. But if I presented her with written words, say "cat", "dog", "mat" and asked her which words rhyme, she is much more reliable. This is still the case for words where the spelling is different e.g. bee and tea. That's what makes me think it's actually hearing the words aloud that she finds difficult. I'm not sure if that makes sense.

As it is, she's not behind at school, and is actually slightly ahead for her age (besides the rhyming), but I will raise it when school gets back. My own dyslexia is most apparent when reading aloud, to the point where I will stammer and stumble/get completely stuck, despite usually being fairly articulate. It makes me wonder if perhaps it's my input which could be causing the issue. Perhaps if DH took on a bigger role with the reading and homework?

I used to work with a child who had this issue (much older though), and one of the techniques that helped her get it in the end was 'robot words'.

We broke down words into sounds ('like a robot saying all the sounds'). Not to be confused with spelling at all; a lot of early learners don't realise that rhyming has nothing to do with spelling! So we'd break down C-a-t, d-o-g, but also th - oh for 'though', for example.

Once she was confident doing this with most words, we talked about pairs of rhyming words, saying that it was the last pair of sounds, usually, that made a rhyme. So in 'cat', the bit that rhymes is 'at', and then we'd practise sticking new sounds in front of it (foam letters worked nicely with this! Pull a sound out of a pile and see if it would work in front, i.e. f-at makes fat, but q-at doesn't make a real word).

You can build from this slowly by inventing rhymes for a given word, or 'testing' for rhymes by breaking them down like a robot into sounds, and seeing which are the bits that make it rhyme or not.

(The child I was working with struggled to understand that the rhyming bit HAD to be at the end, so cat and car don't rhyme, even though they have 2/3 sounds in common, as the last bit is the bit that decides if it rhymes or not).

Interestingly although rhyming can be a good indicator of difficulties with phonological awareness specifically targeting it doesn’t make that much difference. It is far more effective to practice blending and segmenting sounds in words.
As an aside, do you phrase your questions as in your example above? I’m wondering if the difficulty is with processing the language rather than the rhyme itself, especially as you say she can have trouble following instructions.

@takeyoutothehorsedentist some of that sounds familiar - cat and car is the sort of thing she will sometimes say if verbally asked "what rhymes with cat?" But she doesn't have the same issue when reading/writing the question/answer. I will do some robot words and see if that starts to help.

Perhaps it might be useful to stop asking her about anything to do with rhyming for a short while, and concentrate on completely different things. She's probably getting frustrated, and the more she gets it wrong, the more you are reinforcing the idea in her mind that she can't do it. Perhaps spend some time with things she does really well instead, and boost her confidence in other areas.

@Elisheva I vary the phrasing and have been trying not to make a big deal of it, but generally, I would either ask "does cat rhyme with dog, or mat?" Or more open ended, so "what rhymes with cat?". She tends to do better on bigger words with multiple syllables so maybe it is easier to segment the sounds when there are natural breaks?

It is easier to segment syllables than phonemes.
The reading rockets website has lots of ideas for activities e.g. www.readingrockets.org/strategies/onset_rime. You could have a look if you wanted any further ideas.

Thank you! I will have a look and see what we can incorporate into her learning at home.