Should we go down 7+ or 11+ route??

[Melabela10]

Noone owns a crystal bowl here, I know, but need some advice, please!

We live in NW London and currently, our DD (3.5 years old) is in preschool in good prep school (goes till 11) .

We also have been offered a place at the very good prep-prep which goes until 7+. Both schools (our current prep and that prep prep) are good in general and in terms of the exit results and are convenient for us location-wise. So, the question here, do we want to go through 7+ (send her to prep prep) or 11+ route (stay at prep where we are now)?

We target academic schools like South Hampstead further on, but the issue is although we'd like to take the stress of 11+ and get her somewhere at 7+ we are not certain she will be ready to sit an exam at 6.5 yrs. She is a bi-lingual child hence struggling with speaking English compared to native English kids of the same age.

We told by some people that bi-lingual children at pre preps may struggle with comprehension and writing bit of the test and need extra efforts to get through.

Anyone has been in a similar situation and can advise?

Hi, I wouldn't be put off by the bilingual issue. There are many bilingual children sitting and passing the 7+. As long as some prep is being done beforehand to get your child used to practice papers under timed conditions.

We're in NW London and I know that even the 7+ has become pretty competitive over the last 7 years since we've been looking (but stillI less stressful than the 11+ I would imagine). I have boys so I'm not so sure of the girls' schools but from my observations I noticed that winter borns tend to fare much better at the 7+. I have an August born and i decided to shelve the idea of the 7+ with him as he is just too far behind compared to the children in his year that are almost a year older than him. Hoping by 11 the developmental gap will be closed.

If you are concerned about the bilingual aspect, perhaps push reading from here onwards. Reading to them will expand their vocabulary. Mine love maths, verbal reasoning and non verbal reasoning and the eldest got on with the practice papers without my help. But English papers are a battle as it involves having to write longer answers.

Schools that finish at 7+ are good at preparing for the assessment where as schools that go up to 11 have no incentive to. You'll have to do a fair bit of prep at home as the threshold for the assessments can be quite high depending on which schools your child will be sitting for.

Sorry, I haven't really helped much but hope this gets bumped up and someone else can come along with more useful info.

Can you name the prep and pre-prep? lots of people on here who know the schools in the area well.

@WTFsMyUserName DD is spring-born, so wont be the youngest in class. We are only concerned about the english papers, as we were warned by the other parents in the similar situation that bi-lingual children may be slightly further behind on this.

Both me and DP speak other language at home and although we can practice and read with her in English I feel that she is still going to miss out given she will be communicating in other language at home on day-to-day basis apart form those paper-practicing times...at the prep prep we are looking at about 30-40% of the kids speak other languages at home but im not sure which % of them makes it to the top academic school at 7+...

@Tigermom79Tigermom79 we tried her at SH at 4+ and she didnt make it, she is still a bit clingy and shy and tend to freeze when left on her own in unknown places, so she threw a bit of a drama on an assessment day plus her language was quite undeveloped back then.

We would like to target top academic schools like SH, NLCS and City. the problem is that if she wont make it there at 7+ and ends up with offers from less academic schools (Belmont and alike) we will be facing a dilemma of either taking those offers and going in all-through less academic schools or putting her back to prep schools and try to sit at top academic independent schools/gramma schools again at 11+...

@waterbottle12 im not naming the schools just not to out myself too much, but we are confident that both schools are good and have good exit results at 7 + and 11+.

@Melabela10 that's fair enough but just make sure you get numbers from the prep. A lot of preps shout about the few who go to Habs, NLC, City, SHHS but if you look at the real numbers often half to three quarters go to mill hill. If the school won't give you the last five years worth of numbers on request (if not on their website) I would be suspicious.

for example (and I realise this is boys and 13+) but here Mill Hill is the only school with significant numbers every year. In 11 years they got 2 boys into Habs, 4 to Highgate, 10 to UCS, 12 to Westminster and 49 went to Mill Hill! But at least they are honest enough to put numbers on the website. Most don't.
www.lyndhursthouse.co.uk/leavers-destinations.php

A lot of the schools just do this sort of thing and list the schools so you have no idea how many went to each place
www.st-christophers.hampstead.sch.uk/Destination-Schools

FWIW if you go to the pre prep and do the 7+, and don't get a school you want, there are always spaces in the preps at year 3 as some do the 7+ from a prep. Ditto if you go with the prep you can do the 7+ in a low key way and see what happens.

also we overhead (which might be complete hearsay! ) that if the child is not making it at 7+, the same school may not consider them for 11+ or at least they wont be at the top of their list....i.e. if they need to decide whom to give an offer between the candidates with the similar abilities at 11+, the one who failed at 7+ may not get a priority. well, again i hope its just a rumour!

Schools don't care about precious admissions rounds. Ignore that tumour.

Rumour!

Why don’t you keep her at the prep, but still try the 7+ entry? That way, if she fails she can still stay at her normal school with no disruption. I don’t see much sense in moving to the 7+ school.

@waterbottle12 thanks for tips, our prep does publish the number of offers for the last few years and seem like the results vary from year to year, but there is about the same number of offers for SH and less-academic schools and back up schools like Belmont Mill Hill with only few getting offers form top schools like NLCS and City.

I'm also always puzzled by offers count, as I believe preps publish number of offers received in total (assuming one pupil can get a few offers) rather then offers accepted. So, given a lot apply for Mill Hill and alike as back up options and many will eventually get offers from those (but will accept other top schools), this looks like there are just too many offers from less academic schools.

We initially thought of staying in prep and do low-key preparation for 7+ ourselves but given both of us work FT and have younger DC we may not have time/stamina to do all the prep/supervise tutoring process and good prep-prep is in a better position to prepare for it.

I'm also concerned that there are more kids applying at 11+ per one place than at 7+ and we are always concerned that if DD fails at 11+ (for whatever reason, gets stressed during the test, etc. ) we may not get a place at even back up independent school (never mind top schools/grammar). I feel like we will be then only left with some boarding school option (cant afford/ not keen on it) or sending her to non-selective state school in the area (not keen on this either).

@Tigermom79 and @waterbottle12 thanks for dispelling the myths about the admissions rounds!

@XelaM that's what we are debating about with DH at the moment. We are concerned we won't be able to do enough prep ourselves for 7+ and then we are left at the destiny of 11 + (reading the forums and speaking to the parents in real life who went through the process it does sound like a madness !).

Friend's DC, fairly able child from good boys prep sat for 11+ a couple of years back, ended up with no offers from schools he applied for, parents quoted stress and anxiety just before the exams as a reason. They ended up in a local non-selective they are not happy about and now considering homeschooling/sending him boarding. I would assume this is not common and most children will end up with at least one offer, but still ...Its just so much put at the stake of 11+ that we already feel stressed about it.

With sending her at prep-prep which has very good 7+ results we feel like she will be better prepared, though we have to consider the fact that she may not be ready to sit the exam at this stage...but even in this case we can go back to prep and try her for 11+ for the same schools, we have quite a few preps in the area so although they dont have formal 7+ admission there is a lot of movements at 7+ in all preps.

Decisions, decisions, I need wine!

As a mother of a girl in year 5 at a prep - very few kids prepare for those exams without tutors. So don't expect the pre-prep to do some magic that the prep won't do. Kids at the pre-prep will still have to go through test papers at home (with either parents or tutors). And the academic preparation will probably be identical at both schools.

@Tigermom79 thanks ! we believe although there are less places available at 7+ for girls, there is also smaller number of applicants applying per place (or at least those who did a serious prep prior to exams thus reducing their chances of getting in). At the same time there is a large pool of well prepared kids applying per place at 11+ from all independent preps and some kids from state primaries . Again, its all a numbers game and our speculations and our math can be completely wrong hence the dilemma!

I just think changing schools is a lot of disruption for kids, so if she has a chance to sit the 7+, but also still continue at her usual school until 11 - she won't have to move schools unnecessarily.

@XelaM we expect quite a bit of work to be done for 7+ at home even if she is at prep prep, but the whole 7+ process sounds less stressful as we feel we can always go back to prep and try our chances again at 11+.

@XelaM i would agree about the disruption bit chnging scools at 7+ and then 11+ again, it is a concern indeed, but this seems to be the only risk we will be taking sending her off at prep prep.

I would say an advantage if 11+ although certainly more stressful is you have a better idea of the type of child you have a child who with lots of extra work can get into an academic school at 7 may be miserable by 11 if their peers have accelerated in their learning and they haven't. Alternatively by 11 they may be very sporty/musical into drama/much more academic than they were at 7 so your choice of school may reflect that. Some school's will also try to filter out weaker students.

(sorry for semi literate response - typing on phone!)