Question for part-time/cover teachers

[decisionsinsandouts]

I work 3 days a week on a permanent basis covering classes when the class teacher has management time or PPA. I spend a morning or afternoon in year groups from 1-5.
In one particular class, I find the TA to be reasonably pleasant and efficient but inclined to overstep the mark. For example, last week when I was teaching he said to me, it's time to stop now when the children were doing a morning activity and it ran slightly over time. When I was working with a group for guided reading he told the children groups working on independent activities to pack up when I was clearly still working with a guided reading group. Occasionally when I have been out of the classroom with children and come back from PE/music etc he is sitting at the front at the teacher's desk and I have had to ask him to move elsewhere so I can teach.
He seems to get on well with the classroom teacher and I do not want to approach her about it.
It has been an ongoing issue and these incidents continue to reoccur. Has anyone got a diplomatic way of approaching this?

I can't see why you think this is even an issue, tbh.

Most people would find it helpful to have a confident TA who can guide you with regards to normal routine, and who can sort other children in the class out if you are still working with one group.

As for the ridiculous comment about sitting at the teacher's desk -
You aren't going to be sitting there when teaching anyway, surely ??

You said yourself you ran over...

It's not the TAs job to be telling the teacher when to finish lessons. The teacher is the one in charge and ultimately responsible for what happens in class.

I would discuss it with someone from the slt or maybe key stage manager depending on the school set up. They'll be able to help you deal with it.

Ask her to remind you of the time at XYZ. time

Then you can decide what you want to do.

Thanks. You are quite correct Back for Good: teachers spend little or no time sitting down especially with young children! this classroom's layout makes it impossible to access the computer and the smartboard area when someone is sitting in the teacher's chair which I need to do moving when from lesson to lesson.
I generally don't need anyone reminding me when the time has run out. I am an experienced teacher and as I said the lesson ran slightly over time. The guided reading group was interrupted mid-sentence as children began to pack up.

So when he told the children working on independent activities to pack up, that must have been well before the end of the lesson if your guided reading group were mid-sentence? Because presumably, if you're experienced, you were going to bring them to a conclusion several minutes before the end of the lesson so that everyone had time to pack up.

Don't see the problem with him reminding you that it's time to stop if you ran over time - you were at fault there, not him.

I get the feeling that you like the status of "Teacher" and are a little bit resentful of him not being suitably deferential to that? As if he doesn't "know his place"?

The Only Whether you like it or not there is a hierarchy in a classroom. The TA is not responsible for the class, the teacher is.

It is not the responsibility of the TA to overrule the teacher by deciding the lesson should finish. They should, if time is running over, remind the teacher of the time.

If the TA thinks lessons are not being managed properly they have line managers to go to.

Class management is not a team sport unless explicitly planned that way.

It's not a massive problem reminding someone of the time if the lesson is running well overtime agreed. It is a problem having the majority of the class packing up whilst a lesson is in progress,
The guided reading lesson did not involve reading the entire book. I was nearing the end of the pages allocated for that lesson.

I am really interested in a diplomatic way of approaching the problem which has been ongoing.

Its quite normal for TAs to guide supply teachers/cover teachers etc as theyre the ones that know the class really well.

It maybe that timekeeping is important to some of the children (asd etc). Or just that the TA is used to helping keep things on track.

Just acknowledge him/her and thankthem and get on. And work on timekeeping!

It would be quite normal for him to tell the groups hes working with to pack up as its reaching the end of his session with them?

Unless you know the TA well, I still think your best bet is to speak to slt to get support. Not in a 'in telling on you way' more 'how can I discuss this with this member of staff'.

If you are on good terms with the class teacher, they might be another good avenue to explore.

Just talk to them, explain that it might be different to how the regular class teacher does things, but you prefer to end the lesson/tell children when to tidy up. If it happens again catch them soon after and tell them, ‘when you told the children to pack up it interrupted the guided readers, who were almost finished. In future I’ll let the g Co lass know when to pack up.’

As you work witb the class more you will get better at knowing the class and time management which seems to be the only issue here? Also theTA will get used to you.

The thing is that class has someone else for most of the time and gets used to doing things in a certain way. You're only covering rather than the teacher setting the expectations for that class. You could talk to their main teacher about how they work with their TA if necessary but it really doesnt seem it. They prepare to finsib with their groups as the lesson ends which is a good TAa

*let the class know

Thanks, Tinyrobot2 I and soapboxqueen. My intention is not to do things markedly different ways from the class teacher but I like the idea of communicating with the TA and letting him know that whilst it is good to know when time is running out, I will let the children know when it is pack uptime.

I used to do a lot of supply/PPA cover and encountered my fair share of twitchy TAs.

I generally found a "thank you for helping, I know it's always a bit different when it's not the regular teacher taking the class" calmed it down a lot and then after a few weeks they realised I actually did know what I was doing and just relaxed more. Sounds like this has gone a bit further than that though.

I'd pre-empt the desk stuff with "OK Mrs X, we're going to do PE now and should be back at Xpm and then we'll be doing X on the whiteboard" so she knows you're going to need to get in then and has time to get the hint to move (I can understand sitting at an adult-height desk if you get the chance to save your back though) and see if that is enough to get the message through first before you start thinking about if you need reinforcements in!

Totally agree @SquashedFlyBiscuit
I've always found that a TA who knows the class well and invaluable asset in the classroom.

All this nonsense about escalating talking to SMT is completely over the top.
Use @Kuponut's advice if you really think you need to 'tackle' this.

Thanks Kiponut really appreciate sensible advice from someone who has worked in a similar role.

BackForGood speaking to SLT, key stage manager or class teacher about how to deal with another member of staff is not over the top. Particularly if you don't know the TA well.

Situations where it isn't clear who is in charge or who makes decisions about what can be dangerous.

Why can't you just speak to them. How are they supposed to know what you want/don't want from you them. Their not mind readers. Really pisses me off going above someone's head before even mentioning it to them so they can change.

I have no intention of speaking to SLT. I am interested in working productively with the TA.

I'd have no problem at all with what you describe. The teacher and the TA clearly have a relationship where this is okay.

I think it must be really hard for TAs when they swap classes/teachers. We're all different, and I always used to acknowledge that when I inherited TAs from other teachers. So though it'd take a bit of time for them to know my ways, I made sure they didn't think they'd done anything 'wrong' if I asked them to do something differently.

It's all about communication and empathy. I'd even mock myself sometimes. " I know I'm a complete pain in the neck and a bit control freakery about (X task) but could you do it this way for me?"

Thanks saraclara.

I'm really not suggesting going nuclear. Asking for guidance from other members of staff isn't going behind anyone's back either. I assumed that because the OP didn't deal with the incidents at the time, she may not want to confront the TA without some support. Hence why I said she could get that support from other members of staff.

The vast majority of TAs I've worked with have been amazing people who were always incredibly professional and invaluable in supply/short-term roles.

However, I have on one or two occasions had situations with TAs, that started in similar senarios to the OP that ended up being very disruptive because decisions were being made by the TA that I knew nothing about and yet, as class teacher, was responsible for.

I hope you find a solution OP.