Year 2 Maths - moved down 2 tables

[Applesforjam]

Hi,
DD is 7 and in year 2. She has been on the 'top table' for English and Maths since year 1. She has always had excellent reports and her maths report at the end of Year 1 said 'she was a talented mathematician'. However at the end of last term, they did mock sat test for maths and she got a scaled score of 105. She has been moved down two tables and it has knocked her confidence. The teacher said she had expected her to have attained around 108, nearer greater depth.

She got greater depth in the mock reading sats test so remains on top table for that.

Up until now, I never did extra maths at home with her except homework and Mathletics (which the school subscribes for) as she had such good reports from her teachers in reception in reception and year 1.
I just don't understand how she could drop down 2 tables and what has changed since year 1.

Now I have bought some workbooks and SAT papers to help the gaps in her knowledge. I feel bad now as I feel like I should have done some extra maths, maybe 10-20 mins a day in year 1 to keep an eye on things.
Over Christmas I did extra work with her and I have noticed some gaps in her knowledge.

How much extra work does everyone else do with their kids on top of homework? I'm worried that she will not do as well as expected (reaching greater depth ) in the end of year maths sats. Is KS1 results a good predictor of KS2 results? Sorry for the long post!

Predictions based on the previous set of results are required by the government but should not make any difference to the standard of education your child receives. Any good school should teach your child to achieve to their potential.

Please don't worry about SATS results - as Teen says, they are entirely meaningless except as school data.
My DD massively underperformed in her maths KS2 SATS paper. Her predicted target for GCSE is hence quite low, but that hasn't stopped her secondary school actually looking at her performance and putting her in the top maths set. In fact, I'd argue that too high targets can be demoralising.

re 'predicting results' . The KS1/2 SATS do inform 'predictions' but on a cohort basis. Individuals are not constrained by these and can under/over achieve.

DD1: below average at end y2 (2c), average end y6 (4b), narrowly missed an A at GCSE (formal target a C based on KS2)
DD2:

DD3 is in year 6. She came home and said 'Mum, they moved us around today and I'm on the....RED table!!' I said 'Oh, that's nice. Is red table good?' and she said 'Umm...I don't know actually.' then we both laughed. She had no idea whether she'd gone up, down or sideways.

Her school is quite pushy, in that they've been doing mock SATs since the beginning of the year, but it's all low key in the way they are told about their scores, etc.

The table system sounds Victorian!

When looking at our school's results for ks1 maths if you didnt meet expectations then you also didnt meet at ks2 which was surprising as some of the kids are still 6, if you cant do the add /sub in the odd way they use at ks1 then you can easily not pass. Now in ks2 and as i suspected dc is finding column add/sub much easier

Maths skills are just like any other skills, the more you practise, the better you get. If she is enjoying learning at home, then there is not a problem. If not, then try something else; other workbooks or websites.There are lots of ways to build up maths skills.

My dd hated Mathletics, but liked the Letts Mythical Maths workbooks. I would not do SATs questions as a way of teaching, as it seems to be more about getting higher grades than the joy of learning about maths. Nrich is also worth a look at, as it gets them thinking about problem solving and thinking about patterns, which is what maths is all about. Keep it fun and give lots of praise.

I used to do quite a bit at home with dd. She still loves maths and is now doing further maths as one of her A levels.

I’m worried about KS1 SAT results as it seems to be the view that KS1 SATs results predict KS2 results which then predict GCSE results and so on

KS1 SATs don't predict KS2 SATs results, but plenty of children are overly generously assessed at the end of year 2. This means when they arrive in Y6 and are not on track to make expected progress, e.g. expected to be greater depth based on their Y2 results, when they are distinctly average, the Y6 staff are expected to work miracles with them.

I dont think ability to answer the level of SATs

@TeenPlusTwenties Thank you for your advice. She finds wordy problems tricky so I'm trying to help her unpick the maths terms.

@justrichmal Thank you for your post. Did you used to do little and often with your DD? Lett's Mythical Maths looks good and I might buy a copy. She actually enjoys learning at home thankfully. Good luck to your DD in her A levels.

Yes, I found little and often was best. There are days when she wanted to do maths and days when she didn't. My maths is not bad, so I taught her quite a bit at home; with lots of colourful drawings to explain it and thinking up fun ways of getting the maths across. I used revision guides for guidance of what to teach. One mistake I made to begin with was thinking I would just carry on to get to the end of a section. However, once they are bored, not only is it pointless going on, but also they will be more reluctant to return to it next time. So if you want to do work with your dd at home, my advice would be; keep it fun and stop as soon as she wants to stop.

Also, if dd did not understand something, I would just leave it and come back to it next time. For some reason, with maths, the subconscious seems to work on it and it is easier when you come back to it.

Lastly they need to do questions, as maths needs practice in order to learn it.

I hope this makes sense and some of it helps.

@justrichmal Thank you so much for your advice. Really helpful! Little and often is what I've just started doing now with my daughter.

Is this a state school? The teacher appears to have entirely unrealistic expectations.

To get a scaled score of 105 at this point in the year is very good. The children that I am expecting to be greater depth are nowhere near that yet, we still have months to go.

Also as others have pointed out, it is not considered good practice to group by 'ability'. For one thing, the child who has the best understanding of number and place value will not necessarily be the child who is best at shape, or fractions, and so on.

Try not to stress about where she is in the class, as this doesn't tell you anything about where she is for her age. Just keep supporting her with areas that are tricky for her, without doing too much at home.

Where I was a governor, I saw tables grouped all together in a U shape. No obvious top and bottom tables. The work DC were doing differentiated ability.

Do teachers not assess on segment of curriculum covered? I’m fairly certain our assessment was done like that. So it was possible to do well on the curriculum that term.

Our state school doesn't do tables by ability so it's hard to judge how well your child is doing..
I have 2 engineering degrees so we are unashamedly enthusiastic about maths. Both kids are strong at maths and enjoy it. I wouldn't worry too much about scores and tables at the moment but I think you are right to want to instill a positive, confident attitude. Dd2 is also year 2. Our school is v laid back so they have practiced sats questions in class but not whole papers. Some of my friend's schools in London are a lot more pushy.
I have tutored a friend of mine's yr2 for her maths and you can improve a lot between now and may so your dd should not be disheartened.
Dd1 did well in arithmetic but struggled with the reasoning paper. It's not that they can't do the maths it's trying to understand the question. We were disappointed and felt she could have done better so since then I'm more proactive as a parent. I never told her resilt as it would have demoralised her. I told her shed done well and we were very proud. I knew she could have done better.
We subscribe to maths whizz and the children spend an hour a week on it. It's quite good because you can soon see what they can do and what they need help with. Both children are about 1 year ahead with their maths partially thanks to maths whizz.
But don't sweat over the sats the key thing is her attitude to maths. Plenty of practice (in all forms) and encouragement are key.

I was chatting to a friend yesterday whose DSs both did maths at Cambridge and the younger one is truly gifted. As part of the conversation she said that although his maths was extremely advanced at an early age, his literacy was less advanced. It therefore took a while for him to actually understand what more complex questions wanted. He could do the challenging maths, but couldn’t necessarily read a question and know what was required. Literacy is important too!

@MrsKCastle Yes it's a state school. I thought 105 was ok until the teacher said she was expecting around 108 when I asked about the scores.

@MrPickles73 It sounds like my DD was the same as your DD1 - struggled with the reasoning but good at arithmetic. She struggles with understanding what some of the questions are asking. I also feel my DD could have done better. Thanks for the tip about Mathswhizz - we've signed up this week and it looks good and my DD is preferring it to Mathletics.

Well, as a Y2 teacher, 105 is very good and absolutely above the norm at this point in the school year. I think I have one child at that kind of level right now, but I am expecting several to reach greater depth standard by May.

Thank you @MrsKCastle. That's good to know.