Prep and then state secondary - experiences and advice please

[Mamato2gorgeousboys]

Advice please ladies

We have two sons, DS1 who is 3 and DS1 who is 1. I’m in a bit of a dilemma about what to do about their schooling and potentially having a third child. We have their names down with a local prep as we are in catchment for 2 primaries (1 nice and 1 not so nice) and it would depend on the number of applicants whether we would get a spot at the nice one. I also haven’t seen the nice one myself so I could visit and not think it’s a right fit for my boys. We could also potentially get them into a catholic school as we are catholic.

We are in a financial position to be able to afford to send 2 DC to a prep school (and at a push 3) but we could not afford the senior fees as they are double at 20k per child. What are your experiences of going private for primary and then state for secondary? We do have some good grammar schools locally but at this stage, it’s impossible to know whether they would get in. We are lucky to live in an area where all of the local comprehensives are good.

Our reasons for considering a prep school is more for the happy environment, small class sizes, nice ethos, good sport, languages provision, nice food etc. and not necessarily just to pass the 11+, although this would be an added bonus. Another major reason would be the types of children they are around as the local primaries are a bit of a mixed bag. The prep school, however, sends the odd child to the local comps, a few to the grammars and then mostly to the local indies with quite a few scholarships.

Here is where another issue comes in - we’re undecided whether we would like another child and it’s a decision we will make in the next year or two. We could afford 3 lots of prep fees but only for a couple of years and not in the long term. This then means that if we were to have another child, even if DS1 and DS2 were to get a partial scholarship to a local indie, we couldn’t afford the fees for all 3 of them whilst we probably could for 2. There are so many ifs and it is impossible to make decisions based on them. My DH would be happy with 2 but would have another if I really wanted to. If we did have another, it would then mean that we could definitely only go private for prep. I don’t want to put my two DS at a disadvantage because I’ve chosen to have another child when we have two healthy, happy children already for which I am very grateful.

My thoughts at the minute are prep, then state secondary (grammar or comp plus tutors if necessary) and then university if that’s what they want. If we are not paying for partial secondary fees, we would hopefully be in a position to put them through uni so they don’t start out their adult life in debt.

Would you ladies say that prep fees are worth what you get in return? What are your experiences in transitioning to state secondary as some people say that once you’re in, it’s hard to get out of private education? For us, I don’t think it could ever be an option due to finances as we would need to do the same for all 2/3 DC. We aren’t rich by any means but we are comfortable so want to give our children the best start and opportunities we can within our means.

Thanks for reading if you got this far ;)

Where I live it's not unusual to do prep for primary and state for secondary. That's partly because it's a grammar area so people are hoping the prep will help them pass 11+ but also because as you say secondary it's much more expensive. It does depend massively though on what your secondary options are. Whether a prep is worth it depends absolutely on the prep in question I looked at some indie primary's which were awful - I can only imagine people were paying to avoid mixing with what they thought were common people. I pay for prep because my kids benefit from the small class sizes, family atmosphere and get more outdoor space and extra curricular activities. (There may well be state primary's which provide this but my local one didn't). I don't think you're guaranteed better teaching- that depends on the school and you'll need to look carefully at available info. to decide if the teaching is better.

I'd also bare in mind that at preps (not universally but for the most part) kids will come from families who value education. My DC's school is non selective but definitely have a higher than average ability intake. Bare this in mind when comparing results to state primaries (if that info is even available). I think this works well for bright kids as they're likely to have like minded peers.

I would be a little wary of some selective preps - some try to push out students who are under achieving and don't make an effort to address any issues as they have the attitude "well there are 5 other kids waiting for each spot so why bother?". You can usually get an impression for their attitude by how they treat you when you enquire about the school and when you go for a tour. Do they try and answer questions or just give you a copy pasted response?

There are plenty of DC at preps around me they go to state secondary schools. Parents cannot afford more fees or they don’t get 11 plus. It’s a case of having to accept what’s on offer if you cannot afford secondary fees. You just have to cut your coat etc.

If you can only just afford it, I’d have better holidays! Also around me lots of state primary DC are bright and are DC of doctors, solicitors etc or have highly educated parents in other fields. They are interested in education and form a large group within the parent body. A tiny minority are not interested. Some teachers are fantastic too. Better than some at the third rate preps.

Don’t get used to a certain way of life for DC and then pull the rug from underneath them. That’s not very fair.

If the prep dc mostly go on to few paying you will be second class. Do you want your dc to not be able to have the same as their friends?

Fee paying....

In my area it's the complete opposite. we have the state til 8 trend which means many village schools struggle for numbers in keystage 2. Here it's not really common to do private prep and then state secondary (we also have some good grammar schools too)

Thank you for your replies.

Full of jelly beans - Thanks for your reply. The prep we’re considering is non selective and just the one we liked most. Both DC have a place so we have our options open when the time comes. It’s a lovely little school and the headmaster was very welcoming and answered all of our questions. We had a private tour as we weren’t able to make the open day so they were very accommodating.

Bubblesbuddy - it’s not so much that we’d have nicer holidays as when looking at our finances, we took into account our lifestyle. We have approx 20k per year extra disposable income after paying for the house, luxuries, holidays etc. which is why we came to the conclusion that we can afford the prep fees for two DC but only for 3 for a shorter period as we could dip into savings or just be a bit more careful for the few years we have to pay for all 3 at the same time. I would never want them to feel second class but we simply couldn’t afford 40k or 60k per year in fees plus uniform, trips etc. The only upside I suppose is that the children at the prep go to a variety of secondary schools, it wouldn’t be a case of all if their friends going to one school and they would go to another.

We want to be realistic about it what we can afford, whilst giving them the best start in life we can. In an ideal world, money wouldn’t be an issue and we could do everything. A few parents we know whose plan it is to go all the way through up to 18 only have 1 DC which makes the financial side more manageable.

My son did prep school, then went to the grammar. Some went to fee paying, some to the grammar and some to the state school. There was no big deal made of it at the prep school.

The school shouldn’t bother. But children talk. The ones going to expensive senior schools will see that as superior. It’s inevitable. They will be doing entrance exams. They will be waiting for results. The talk will be who is going where. At least this is the role of most preps. If it’s just a nice little school where parents don’t have ambition, I’m not quite sure why you would pay?

My DD2 went to a little school like this but soon outgrew it. Sport, art, science and music was pretty poor. Small classes but that was it. Most dc didn’t even stay to y6. Too babyish. Many left for state primaries and more robust preps to ensure progression to senior schools of choice.

It isn’t a given that little preps are a great advantage. We have put a lot on money aside for DDs for house deposits and they also went to boarding school. Is £20,000 a year worth spending on education if you cannot afford the secondary age which confers hugs benefits? Would you be able to set them up with property as well as this?

Yes it's an interesting one. I agree with @BubblesBuddy post above. That has been my personal experience of prep school when I was there and now very much the experience of friends and family with older children. Mine are in private pre-prep now and I'm one of the least 'pushy' parents I'd say, but even I am very keen that they should progress to the best possible senior schools. The other way to look at it though would be to throw everything at it at
prep stage and work towards scholarships. But that obviously depends on the children and how academic they are and it's not possible to tell that at your sons' ages.
Would you consider boarding at 13? Might open up scholarship options? London day schools are fiercely competitive.
In your place I'd stop at 2 and go private as far as you can.

Did private prep from nursery to Y6 for both mine, and they are now both extremely happy in their state boarding school. It's been a great option for us, terrific high quality education without the pressure and stress of a grammar.

DD did extremely well in her GCSEs last year and is loving sixth form. DS now in Y8 and doing well academically as well as being very happy within his friendship groups. No regrets here, the prep gave them an amazing foundation in education, a thirst for learning and the belief that studying and doing well is A Good Thing.

'We want to be realistic about it what we can afford'

TBH you are talking about an excess 20 grand per annum here. Personally that would worry me if I had potentially 3 at prep.

The wrap around care can be amazing if you both work, really valuable. Around here through (not in south) it's often private at secondary. In dc prep most will go on to private secondary.

I've known children who have gone on to state grammar after private prep school and all has been well.

We are opting for state til 8 then private for our DCs. Where we live education is not valued and expectations are low.
If money is tight go for free KS1 and change for Yr3. KS1 is mostly learning to read and basic maths most of which you can support at home. In KS1 the prep school will not do anything more exciting in sport so you will not be missing out.

I should add we don't have any grammar schools here..

Prep then grammar sounds great, but so does nice state primary with tutoring in Year 5-6 ready for 11+. Then save your money and pay for 6th form if you feel they need it.

Hi I think it's possible but it is more common that you save money to send children to state primary and 11 plus for grammar and indies.

Also, prep school fee is increasing yearly. My children started from reception and the fee is almost double when they are in Year 6.

I did prep then a state grammar school.

Worked for me, the prep set me up well for life and prepared us very well for the 11+ and then the grammar was a great free education.

The grammar schools here always outperform the private schools in exams by some margin.

I think I would do - State till 8
Then prep school
If the children are bright enough and the grammar school suits them I would opt for that for secondary.
If the child struggles I would look at a private school for secondary
Good luck

I sent mine to state juniors and private seniors - I have 4. I wanted them to have local friends in the area and there was a real mix of families of very different backgrounds.The secondary state school option was poor so they were sent to a local prep for 7/8 common entrance and a private girls school. They have subsequently moved to an international school and a boarding school. I don't think private preps are often brilliant value for money and it's a very valuable lesson to be able to get on with people from all walks of life.

Thanks again for the input and replies.

We definitely have a lot to consider when it comes to our options. State for junior school years is an option with tutoring to ensure they’re up to scratch for private school entrance exams (and of course a lot of parental input). We could put the money we would have spent on prep each year away and then would only need to pay for 50% of fees in secondary. 11+ would by far be the preference as we have a few of the top grammars in the country within 10 mins of where we live.

I would also like to think that by that stage, our income will be higher as well as we are currently mid thirties and I only work 2.5 days whilst the boys are so young. I spoke to my grandfather about the situation also and he said that he is planning on downsizing in the next couple of years and will give us a chunk of money which will mean that our mortgage should be paid off by the time DS2 starts school.

Bubblesbuddy - I do appreciate your honesty. Children can be cruel which is part of why I was unsure of the transition of private to state. I wouldn’t at all say parents at the Prep school we are considering aren’t ambitious as most aim for a top grammar or indies in our area. I described the school as a “nice little school” due to the nurturing and welcoming atmosphere not due to the lack of facilities or attainment. Investing in DC education does mean that we would have less when it comes to property but we do have a second property which would give them approx. 100k each for 3 DC or 150k if we had 2 DC. It’s not a property each, of course, but hopefully a sizeable deposit to get them started.

If you aren’t too sure about your local primary catchments, might it be much cheaper to move to a preferred catchment? Or if you get the school you don’t like then go onto waiting lists for other schools and hopefully move in Reception?

If you’re worried about the primary school being ‘mixed’, then secondaries are far more so as they have wider catchments.

I found it almost easier to work longer hours when they were at nursery. Now they are 6 and 10 it is constant juggling with before school swimming and running training, matches, music concerts etc for which they cannot catch the prep school bus home.. we only have 2.. I couldn't cope with 3. I think it's better to be conservative on the earnings assumption than over stretch yourselves financially.

Teta also males a good point that it's very valuable to meet the children in your immediate neighbourhood.